Advisor Suggestions

@frogs.poison
For the niche advisors, they don't need to have similar relative strength, they just need to be usable in a couple of scenarios in the game.

Erastos is lovely on the few minigame type quests where you need to gather stone early, that is his purpose and he works for that.

Thutmose is again just for a few minigame or special quests where you need to get a lot of wood early, that is his purpose and works for that. Wood is generic so some players might like to use him as their age 1 advisor in more regular quests and while maybe not optimal he does provide enough value to be close enough and maybe makes gameplay a bit more fluid for players that choose him.

Finnbar/Aapep - agree they need improvements around the longevity of their food sources but they don't need to be equal, just need to be okay choices for maps with lots of fish or hunts/berries.

I've posted some suggestions for age 1 advisors, will see if i can do age 2 later this week. I think we're going to disagree on some basic principles of what advisor should do, which is fine, different viewpoints are good, for example I'm fine with some advisors just being used in niche minigame quests but basically never in Legendary quests, Legendary quests aren't the only thing in the game and not all advisors should not be balanced around if they are useable in Legendary quest, in my opinion, which doesn't mean I'm right :D
 
Aryzel said:
@frogs.poison
For the niche advisors, they don't need to have similar relative strength, they just need to be usable in a couple of scenarios in the game.

Erastos is lovely on the few minigame type quests where you need to gather stone early, that is his purpose and he works for that.

Thutmose is again just for a few minigame or special quests where you need to get a lot of wood early, that is his purpose and works for that. Wood is generic so some players might like to use him as their age 1 advisor in more regular quests and while maybe not optimal he does provide enough value to be close enough and maybe makes gameplay a bit more fluid for players that choose him.

Finnbar/Aapep - agree they need improvements around the longevity of their food sources but they don't need to be equal, just need to be okay choices for maps with lots of fish or hunts/berries.

I've posted some suggestions for age 1 advisors, will see if i can do age 2 later this week. I think we're going to disagree on some basic principles of what advisor should do, which is fine, different viewpoints are good, for example I'm fine with some advisors just being used in niche minigame quests but basically never in Legendary quests, Legendary quests aren't the only thing in the game and not all advisors should not be balanced around if they are useable in Legendary quest, in my opinion, which doesn't mean I'm right
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Yea, agree to disagree on the point of advisors. One last clarification - Every single mini-game/special quest can be completed with an unoptimal, or even no advisor setup, and often times with little or no struggle if you are an experienced player. However, having an unoptimal advisor setup on a legendary quest can result in struggling or even failure to complete - And between having more viable, optimal advisors, and silly advisors, I will pick more viable and optimal advisors every time.

Now, I don't think that some advisors need changes - Finnbar is perfectly fine and is considered to be the optimal choice on any fish heavy map (Euphrates, Fabii, ect).
Thutmose only slightly underpreforms other advisor choices if we discuss only the early game buildup, and if you have a wood-heavy comp then Thutmose is actually on par with more meta advisors.

I'm fairly sure that moving the Sheep spawn from Shepherd to Houses instead of Town Centers would fix every single issue pp seem to have with current Shepherd without making it a default choice.

A new A1 advisor that helps with early defense, falling off completely in A4, would be interesting for sure - Though it's interaction with A2-only quests is a bit more debatable.
With that said, buffing Leucon to instead make Scouts extremely hard to kill (And !@#$ City Defense/Conquest, you can literally AFK half of those quests by just spawning and putting Cows in the correct position. They should have 0 consideration when it comes to balancing things that affect the rest of the game) would also help with early defense by allowing Scouts to tank far more damage, letting you micro early waves that are difficult to deal with, while at the same time having nearly no effect on the rest of the game. Though again, I would settle for greatly increased LoS as well as cheaper/faster Watch Posts instead.

Aapep - Agree, I feel that his main problem is the lack of conservation more then anything else. The boost to berry gathering is large enough that it's worth gathering berries even after you've gotten the last farm upgrade - And no need to mention Huntables where the only faster food gathering is via fishing boats. Not sure the exact amount of conservation, but 30% isn't enough.
 
Now, this talk on Conservation has actually made me consider something else - @Aryzel, you stated that most A1 advisors give resource savings in the 500-1200 resource range. However, when conservation was added to a number of advisors, these numbers have drastically changed.

For instance, Miner Kleon's very strong niche is maps without Caravans - On these maps, Kleon yields a full 1200 extra resources per gold mine - If there are 5 Gold Mines, which is fairly common, you are acquiring a whopping 6000 extra gold over the course of the map, which you would not have if you used any other advisor - This is why I would recommend Kleon to any player doing several of the new Socrates maps, and why I don't feel Kleon needs any changes - He's niche, yes, but in his niche he is incredibly, absolutely the best choice available, no contest (Similar to Finnbar).

Thus, with the presence of Conservation on multiple A1 advisors, is the top savings of other cost reduction advisors of 1200 resources even viable anymore? Does Finnbar/Kleon need to be nerfed because of their extreme power in their niche? Personally, I dislike nerfs - Losing power is never fun, and one generally needs to redesign existing content if the nerfs are through enough (For instance, most of the optionals in the Champion Mode quests now range from extremely tight to simply impossible, whereas before they were in the range of quite easy (Join Forces optional) to somewhat tight (Totally Turanian optional) because of a combination of nerfs. This is why I feel that A2 caravan advisors shouldn't all be nerfed, and instead all other lacking A2 advisors should be buffed.
 
frogs.poison said:
Now, this talk on Conservation has actually made me consider something else - @Aryzel, you stated that most A1 advisors give resource savings in the 500-1200 resource range. However, when conservation was added to a number of advisors, these numbers have drastically changed.

For instance, Miner Kleon's very strong niche is maps without Caravans - On these maps, Kleon yields a full 1200 extra resources per gold mine - If there are 5 Gold Mines, which is fairly common, you are acquiring a whopping 6000 extra gold over the course of the map, which you would not have if you used any other advisor.
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Actually I don't really view the conservation as extra or saved resources at all. Yes it effectively adds more to the map, but you still gain it at the same rate (just talking about the conservation bit), so you can't act faster or do more because of conservation, it just means you can make the change to caravans more gradual or later in quest. Your power in the quest hasn't changed, just the flow of how you play. You will always need to go to infinite supplies at some point, if you have Kleon you get up to 6000 more from the map, but if you didn't have Kleon you still get that gold too you just get it from caravans at likely a faster rate in most cases. (note: even on large maps with short caravan routes, if you are moving villagers around the map to keep gathering gold with Kleon, when you in account for the movement of the villagers to new gold mines, their gather rate will effectively drop a lot and a even a short caravan route can be considered decent)

I guess huntables with very high conservation would be a bit impactful as its a higher rate than other foods so you would be able to do a bit more, but solution is just to not make the hunts conservation crazy high. I don't there are any maps with huge amounts of hunts so could probably still have a decently high huntable conservation without too much worry.
 
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Ms Awesome Advisor Name
- Allow 1 Armory to be built in Age 1, and all armory techs be available 1 age earlier? This could be nicer approach than Ms Super Cool Name idea (extra armor that degrades as you age up), might not be technically possible though
 
Aryzel said:
Actually I don't really view the conservation as extra or saved resources at all. Yes it effectively adds more to the map, but you still gain it at the same rate (just talking about the conservation bit), so you can't act faster or do more because of conservation, it just means you can make the change to caravans more gradual or later in quest. Your power in the quest hasn't changed, just the flow of how you play. You will always need to go to infinite supplies at some point, if you have Kleon you get up to 6000 more from the map, but if you didn't have Kleon you still get that gold too you just get it from caravans at likely a faster rate in most cases. (note: even on large maps with short caravan routes, if you are moving villagers around the map to keep gathering gold with Kleon, when you in account for the movement of the villagers to new gold mines, their gather rate will effectively drop a lot and a even a short caravan route can be considered decent).
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To be precise, I was referencing to Kleon's value on maps where you do not have access to Caravans/Markets - Come Together being the best example, where you aren't going to get a good merchant transport line and you have a set amount of gold on the map itself, maps where Kleon is one of the better choices. In these cases, you don't have infinite gold at a good rate of aquisition, thus the conserved gold from Kleon becomes notable towards keeping army spam going.
 
I guess the conservation is somewhat impactful in that situation but still would consider it as something that affects flow more than power. A full army (say 140pop) costs about 20k gold equivalent if buying all resources with gold via market, 10-15k resources if producing each independently, very roughly. So 6k conserved gold isn't a huge impact on overall game, its nice, one of the key things that make the advisor enjoyable to use due to the change in flow.

EDIT: I've kinda forgotten the point we're trying to discuss ?
 
@Aryzel just trying to identify Advisors that are either lacking/inferior to similar advisors, and a little bit of trying to identify Advisors that may need to be brought down to parity, like Julius Caeser.

I'm sidelining a bit trying to figure out what's good parity for A1 advisors especially in terms of resources generated and thus brought up how to count conservation towards an advisor's power especially on maps where that conservation really shines (Maps where you don't get infinite resources via caravan/market)
 
I just mean specifically about conservation.

I think my Age1 suggestions are decent, somewhat biased ofc :D Hopefully other people will share ideas too and we can see what ideas jump out as best and give the devs plenty of ideas to consider.

I'd also say that changes should mostly be gradual, its better to have advisor revampe 3,4,5 with tweaks rather than big set of changes now and then have to nerf them back down a lot soon after
 
Age 2 Responses to @frogs.poison suggestions:
I could be wrong on my feedback Frogsposion and I'll go through all age 2 advisors next week to give my ideas. Maybe you have good vision in your mind but most of your suggestions are written as 'Is not good, needs buffs compared to something that might not be comparable, here is new number', I'm not really clear on the arguments that back up some of your suggestions, I know that can be a lot of work but is hard to really embrace them without more reasoning. I think to provide convincing arguments to devs we really need to give feedback more in the format of 'This advisor seems to fit this specific use case or gameplay effect, I tried using it on quests X,Y,Z and it didn't seem to help, likely because of reasons A,B,C, maybe change effect D,E to do more of F so that advisor can work in the scenario it seems to fit"

Heron: Cav 50% los/snare resistance
Minos: Inf 50% snare resist and 35% snare
Both fit into allowing you to really go for sniping production in quests, haven't used it much myself because I'm not great at that gameplay, but seems decent with those stats for that gameplay style and complements the age 3 advisors for faster movement. Seem to make sense as is, if your eco management is good enough and you want to strengthen how you attack and dismantle the enemy.
I wouldn't change without feedback from the top players who do the very quick quests, push early and are skilled at sniping enemy production. As these advisors fit into that gameplay, do those players consider these advisors fit for that purpose, would buffs/changes have any impact?

Timon and Gaiana
Ranged 12% cost/train time vs Ranged can attack/see 12% farther
Range distance is usually most desired, but in cases where you already has sufficient distance from gear then cost/time could be nice, seems reasonable choice as they currently are.

Herakleides and Hermolaos
Inf -12cost,traintime and Cav -12% cost,traintime
Seems like decent eco cost reduction and get larger army out bit faster. Not sure its clear that it needs changing.

Eochaid - all units -20% gold and train 5% faster
Seems fairly strong for any gold heavy armies. Would need to run some numbers, but offhand 140pop of berserks costs 12000gold, so 20% saving is 2400 gold each time you replenish your army, seems pretty solid.

Village Elder - For efficient players the 15% train time should be very nice. I tend to float resources and forget to keep my caravan/villager production perfect so I don't think this advisor is good for me, but for players with tight controlled eco it should be strong with its current effect.

Hyginus/Narmer/Connall
Inf 2 regen/Cav 3 regen/Inf+Rng+Cav 1.6 regen
- Don't see why Hyginus should be equal to Narmer, Inf is typically lower health and lower population cost per unit, therefore makes sense that the regen is lower too.
Connall is very nice as is for some minigames like City Defense where you have mix of all 3 unit types, wouldn't like to see that go away. A ranged regen advisor just wouldn't be used, players already don't even put hp gear on rng, wouldn't use regen either.

Persia: Bardiya and Ormazdiyar
They affect different things, so making numbers the same doesn't make them the same.
Bardiya (-40% build time but +15% cost) works for the quick army production push, net neutral should be about right, its all about the change in gameflow as the result.
Ormazdiyar (research -60% time but +12% cost) seems very nice for booming faster.
I'd ask more of the very top persian players if they have used the advisors in these ways and see what they think, too hard to judge without practice with the advisors.

Celts: Cartimandua
- making them health and speed could be cool, but depends on if devs want druids to be used alongside Woad Raiders and Horsemen, could make those compositions too strong, they already work well as is. Druids with Champions is the combo that druids/champions work well in.

Celts: Diviciacus (free deer and cheaper Grove) vs Agape (-75% farm cost)
I'm not sure it is clear that agape is better. In age 2 the gathering rate is the same, age 3,4 farms do pull ahead when you get the tech upgrades, though they have high cost unless you use Irene. One suggestion might be to give Diviciacus the 25% faster gathering from herdables like Shepherd has, though I'm a little worried of players using both to get to 1.9 herdables gathering, perhaps its possible to give Diviciacus just 25% faster gathering from deer? Other suggestion I'd have, for Diviciacus and Shepherd, is to give both say 20-30% herdable conservation, seems weird when both spawn free herdables, but reason is that for both cases the initial supply of herdables spawned can be slow or not keep up with the amount of villagers you want on food, so with conservation you could drop a Cows consumable and have nice initial supply of herdables until the free supply builds up.

Egypt: Userhet
Camel Riders +30% bonus damage vs cavalry and 30% cav armor
- I think the point of this is not to make Camels 'viable' for pve, ie clearing quests, though maybe with some other advisors and specific quests they might be. But the point is for specific quests, or part of quests, where you get hit by a lot of cav, you can turn your camels into Super-Camels! and really wipe out any enemy cav. https://unitstats.projectceleste.com/?build=56687dd9695c8d235431a6c958ba46a1ba17d001696b673e49740e62 (280dps vs cav :D)

Babylon: Berosus the Wise - don't know enough to judge

Britomartus - removing TC build cap (without changing pop caps) is probably more technical dev work than is worthwhile. Existing effects seem fine. Buffs and changes to build limits risks creating a far too powerful advisor that becomes the only Age 2 choice.
 
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Again, most of my numbers come from the idea that all advisors should be close enough to each other that even niche advisors can be used on any quest, simply adjusting priority/gameplay. I'll simply state my reasoning for several advisors that currently do have obvious balancing problems.

Eochaid - There are only 3 units in the game in which Eochaid gives more total resources saved then one of the other class-specific cost reduction advisors - Sappers, Khepri Elephants, and Berserkers. In all other cases, Eochaid either gives the same amount of resources saved (Cataphracts, Gastra, Woad Raiders) or gives less. There is something of a fringe case with Centurions before the A4 gold cost deduction tech - But given that Centurions are an A3 unit, you'll transition to A4 and grab that tech before Eochaid gives too much cost savings. Mixed armies and siege units can also be a point of consideration - But for most "meta" comps consisting mainly of a single unit type, Eochaid falls behind.

Village Elder - The problem I have with Village Elder is that part of his effect is also part of Zeno's effect. I feel that instead of Village Elder being a "budget Zeno", he should instead be more specialized in villagers, so that on maps without Caravans he becomes a very strong, top pick, and on map with Caravans he can compete against caravan advisors without being a caravan advisor.

Bardiya - The issue with him is that, while there are several other advisors with both positive and negative effects, Bardiya is the only advisor in which both effects combine to cancel out the effects. Yes, you can build buildings faster with Bardiya - But you can also build buildings faster by simply adding more villagers, and if you use less wood with Combutis, you can move additional villagers from wood to buildings, only needing 2 additional villagers to match that build speed. And since Combutis has a full 35% wood cost reduction over Bardiya, you can easily afford to move 2 additional villagers from the woodline to building. Thus, this makes Bardiya an underpreforming advisor where advisors that don't preform the same function as his niche still fulfills his niche better overall.
Keep in mind I used Ormazdiyar as an example of good advisor design - As you can't speed up the train time of individual techs, Ormazdiyar is incredibly strong in his specific niche, unlike Bardiya. I do not feel that Ormazdiyar needs any changes.

Userhet - First, I'm approaching Userhet from the undeniable fact that, by essentially every metric possible, Camel Riders are the worst cavalry unit in the game with all possible effects and modifications. Camel Riders aren't even the most effective unit on the Egyptian roster at taking out Cavalry - Spearman have far higher EH vs cav, slightly higher damage per pop, less cost, and are a fraction of the train time as Camel Riders.
I'm also all for increasing meta build variety - An additional 30% health and damage boost to Camel Riders essentially puts them on par with Asabara - Similar health, lower direct damage with higher specific multipliers. All this without having to add a completely new A4 advisor. Thus, this gives Egypt an additional mass option and greatly strengthens their build variety.
Yes, this does also greatly strengthen Camel Riders in their two current niches - Anti-Cav Cavalry unit, as well as A2-only Cavalry unit, but considering that Camel Riders are currently the worst unit in both of those niches among all other units, they need the strength.

No, Userhet does not turn Camel Riders into Super-Camel Riders, at all.

Britomartus - From a Macro perspective, Britomartus falls far short in comparision to nearly all other A2 economic advisors - Total resources saved is a pittance, and total amount of build time saved is also a pittance, as his effect only affects 3 buildings total, and in terms of getting out villagers faster, Villager Elder, even with his pitiful 15% boost to villagers, still does the job better. Again, it's an issue of other advisors doing the job of the advisor better then the advisor.
From a military perspective, again - You can only have 4 TCs, thus the total military power given by Britomartus is limited. Outside of crazy players like Psychosaurus, you aren't going to continually use TCs as frontline static defense. And you also aren't going to continually delete TCs to extend your static defense. Finally, if you are losing and the enemy is able to freely attack your TCs, Britomartus isn't enough to save you - I know this from personal experience when I was a scrub.

Thus, if the extra TCs not giving pop can be addressed - And if it's anything like Houses it already is addressed, there are several missions in which you can have more then 120 pop worth of houses, and those extra houses will not give extra pop - There shouldn't be any issue with allowing Britomartus to remove the TC limitation. Guard Towers deal more damage and have higher range. Storehouses and Docks are both cheaper, faster to build drop-off points. And Nannus already does what Britomartus could do in terms of early eco boom, just with Caravans rather then Villagers, and far, far cheaper at that (62 wood/15 second build time vs 150 combined resources/60 second build time)
 
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Eochaid - so works for those units, is that not good enough usage? And if you increase his effect how does that impact those units, do they become too effective?

Village Elder - i see what you mean about Zeno, but 30% villager train time is too much. Train time is a strong villager stat, is why best Laborer gear item for villager is train time. But perhaps it could be 15% villager train time and 5% move speed, or carry capacity, making it villager focused.

Bardiya - Build time is a tricky stat, personally I don't think build time is a strong stat for most players, as you can build with multiple villagers, but some very good players can make good use of it. We can consider this advisor as something that some players can sometimes make use off it or just delete the advisor completely. Can't just keep increasing its build time reduction or it just makes gameplay too different to the core of AOEO or opens up a pile of new balancing issues from how top players can figure out how to use it. I think its better to have a niche rarely used advisor than make a broken one, you can only push some stats so far.

Userhet
I misjudged the Camel Rider numbers with Userhet, being playing romans and fighting lots of elite camels so had forgotten how strong the other Horsemen are. Camel riders are less strong by about 30% on the dps, but they also cost 20-30% less than the age 3 horsemen so the difference isn't terrible, and it fits the general style of early egyptian army, cheap and plentyful in age 1-2. I don't think its a basis for making changes, we don't get to have all the tools we might want on all civs, you take strengths with weaknesses. Increasing meta variety is good, but not everything will be desirable for the game, for some cases you just get to use some units in a few easy quests and they can't do more. Userhet still gives egypt a strong anti-cav cav in age 2 if egypt players need it for specific quests or early defense in quests.

Britomartus - None of the A2 advisors are really insane from and eco perspective, not anymore, which is a good thing, lets us choose more based on what we prefer or what fits a particular quest. Britomartus fits this in that he is good for the odd quest, a bit of early immediate defense and boom your villagers a bit, he not extremely good even on quests that suit him but can be fun to play when the quest and what you want to do line up. I don't see that as a problem.

For Britomartus but also other advisors
  • if you buff it a lot does it just makes some quests trival?
  • similarly does it restict devs from creating new quest styles because a particular advisor would make it trival?
  • how does he play in the hands of really, really good players?
  • is the gameplay/feel that the advisor creates something that we want in the game and is good for players and the game?
We have to answer those questions for every advisor change.

What is good can be very different to what the players might want, players often want increased power but if given it the game becomes easier and less fun, they get bored and stop playing. I know you've already put in lot of work on these ideas already, and I will get around to doing my suggestions too, next week most likely, so you can poke holes in my ideas then :D In mean time if you feel like doing even more work, if you had to make advisor changes but they could only be nerfs to advisors you consider too strong, what would the nerfs be?
 
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Hrmm, in terms of nerfs, let me think.

Caeser, of course, is obvious - The combination of 50% train time reduction, 20% speed boost, and ofc the gargantuan 50% ignore armor is just too much in a single package. Personally, I believe the Ignore Armor is the biggest contributor to Caeser's power - It allows Legionaries to not only completely smash through all other anti-infantry infantry, but also to cleave through anti-infantry Cavalry, in addition to effectively ignoring max armor upgrades - Combined with Legionaries innately high speed, their hefty damage stats, defensive stats, incredibly low cost, and even a charge and snare, it makes Legionnaire mass the most effective mass in the game with no weakness.

Thus, I would completely remove the Ignore Armor from Caeser. This will leave Pompey as the sole damage boosting advisor for Legionaries, who would be an excellent choice for players who value fighting power over speed. In exchange, I would extend Caeser's effects to Spearman as well as Officers, perhaps other units on the roster as well.

Finnulfr, of course, is another - The reduction to 1 pop immediately doubles the stats of the military, but as if that wasn't enough, Finnulfr also grants both a significant boost to health as well as to building damage. While Finnulfr did receive a nerf to 35% bonus damage from 50%, the addition of Lohrasb has made Finnulfr Horsemen one of the tankiest units in the game, in addition to having massive map presence, solid damage, and excellent speed.
Thus I feel a nerf of some form is needed - Perhaps nerfing the health bonus to 15% instead of 30%?

Beorix - Beorix gives a fairly sizeable buff to a unit that was already among the most powerful masses without even needing an advisor, and I really don't know why. I would suggest reverting him back to his previous iteration of buffing the Bowman and Skirmisher - With the current Torhild, this will easily bump Norse Bowmen up a tier (Giving them an additional 12% range, attack speed, and movement speed), making them on par with Toxotes in terms of power, and would even buff Skirmishers to the point that they are a viable range deathball - While leaving King Theode as a decent advisor for Berserkers.
 
The Legendary advisors are a bit of a wild bunch one alright, haven't looked at them yet.
For age 1, age 2, what are the advisors you would nerf, if you couldn't do the buffs you suggest. Or just what are the advisors you are comparing against to see what is underpowered and maybe few words on why you think they are relatively more powerful, might help me get better feel for where you're coming from with suggestions.

P.S: Will be away a few days, so might not post more till next week
 
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I must agree with frogs.poison in many points, a lot of the advisors are just too weak to be an serious alternative for the better ones like philion, giana. Maybe they don't need too much of a buff like immunity.

I rarely change my advisors at all, sometimes on water/land or if the key unit is changed. In age 1 i always use philion, with and better advisor for barracks buildings speed (main thing i use philion for as celts) would make an proper possibility.

But i think the devs will find a good way to balance it out. But sometimes i feel the buff is too small even for already changed advisors.
 
Hrmm, in A1, there really aren't any advisors that are absolutely overpowered. Philon and Zephyros are both considered to be among the strongest A1 advisors pretty much. Overall, A1 advisors, even the strongest among them, aren't that overall high-impact compared to, say, A4 advisors.

And I've already mentioned A2 caravan advisors - However, their large impact isn't due to the advisors themselves, but instead the immense impact of Caravans in PvE, and specifically the need to get out as many caravans as possible as fast as possible. I've put my thoughts on Caravans in this thread: https://forums.projectceleste.com/threads/is-caravan-spamming-degenerate.5596/
If caravans were adjusted in a manner similar to this, then the impact of caravan-centric A2 advisors would decrease to the point that many other A2 advisors would become quite viable, and would no longer need adjustments (Basically going from adjust most other advisors to only adjusting a handful of advisors instead)
 
Now I'm confused, some mixed messages here, you've listed a lot of A1 a2 advisors to buff, but if you could only do nerfs there would be none that you would nerf?

When A1 and a2 are underpowered what are they underpowered compared to? And how would you nerf those compared advisors instead of buffing lots of other advisors?
Ps. I can see Philon is popular but that doesn't mean he is strong as people think, he is really more of a middle ground advisor (with exception of the very very top fast players who do fast attacks, age 1 to age 4 and full army attack in 7-9min)
 
Ok, so I'll address A1/A2 in two seperate posts, A2 first.

With Age 2, Nannus is currently the indisputable king. However, if Nannus was nerfed, then another Caravan advisor would become the best. And if all Caravan advisors were nerfed to the point that other A2 advisors can come into play, you have essentially nerfed Caravans in total. This can result in players who were previously able to do quests by relying on the economic power of caravans in not being able to complete quests. And anytime that a change is made that makes content that was previously accessible to the playerbase no longer as accessible, well, that's simply bad design.

Thus, I currently do not suggest nerfing any A2 advisors, and instead look into adjusting caravans so that spamming as many as possible is no longer the most effective form of play on maps that allow for caravans. Should caravans be adjusted so that making as many markets as possible to make as many caravans as possible as quickly as possible isn't the best way to play, then the Caravan Advisors will have been adjusted. And with that, many advisors which currently underpreform against Caravan advisors will no longer need adjustment.

Instead, the focus can be on advisors that underpreform compared to other advisors within their niche.

Hope this is succint.
 
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