Does the enemy cheat on all legendary missions?

[WobbleDee]

Just wasted 3 hours on General Setredet's Demise and couldn't make any progress. The enemy respawns elites on the map out of thin air and I couldn't find any way to stop that.

Before I invest any more time on any future missions is respawning a normal thing with legendary missions or is it a unique aspect of this particular mission?

If I'm missing something here feel free to chime in. I know the expectation is this is a co-op mission. I just don't think an enemy using cheat codes for unlimited resources, respawning elites, etc. is fair or fun, but maybe that's just me.

 

[smileyguyx]

When you're trying to capture the wonders the enemy will spawn a separate set of armies for that wonder. Capture the wonders last and make sure you have a good stash of resources; when going for the wonders kill off your villagers to make room for more military.

i haven't done it solo though.

 

[rtsgamer]

@WobbleDee are u soloing the quest and which civ re u playing?

 

[WobbleDee]

@WobbleDee are u soloing the quest and which civ re u playing?

Attempting solo as Egyptian (I know legendary are designed for co-op).

 

[rtsgamer]

@WobbleDee hi m8, ok ill expain how iam soloing it with eggy, maybe that will help u.

First advisors:
Irene age1, dumno age2 or navigator (if u want to trade on water),
Harthor age3, khepri age4

When u start the game, first of all u must kill the 2 fireships to secure ur trade route, u can do that with some spears, tower or with ur own ships, up to u.

From there build up ur eco, by solo u need around 40 carawans, this way ur coin income will be fine and u can pump out elephants once u re age4

Once u have reached age3, I would place around 4-6 forts on the coast to secure that area and u can pump ur eles from there.

Usually u dont need to touch the sea, except a few fire ships to make ur way free to get to the wonder there.

When u re rdy to fight kill first of all baracks/stables, with eles it will be easy to kill anything anyway.

Dont take wonders, if 1 of ur units gets near to the wonder the ai will spawn more units, be careful there.

When u have killed everything, except sea and rdy to take wonders, kill all of ur vils and carawans etc. to maximize ur pop. So now u have to split ur eles to take all 4 wonders on same time, its easier than its heards like at least collect chests and gg.

hf & gl / greetz

 

[alemandela17]

I solo this quest with greeks. Use gastras with palinthonos. After I'm done with destroying TC and the General. Use a few villagers to build about 5 infantry buildings on front of each wonder. I start training infantry from all buildings and have them move to the front of each wonder. I keep training infantry until all wonders are controlled.

 

[Exclusive0r]

Does the enemy cheat on all legendary missions?
.

Well that "Cheat" is part of the mission to make it harder. So it's not a cheat and some other leg missions have respawns but I forget the names and as Im in hospital I cannot get to them.
Most Legs are also Solo as well as co op, with the right gear, advisors, consumeable etc you can solo them if you have the right strat. You Tube has loads of solo'd legs I have solo'd this with Greek, Persia, Celt as it sounds like the summer event leg. If it's changed I will try in Nov

PS: If is the one to get the Wonders, the trick is to get troops at the spawn points to kill them as they spawn .... and the spawn points are always at the edge of the map behind the wonders in a valley
so kill the 2 bases , do each wonder 1 by 1 , the hardest being the one you have go in a boat. But you can build there so basically once you can vills you can build and spam .... (I always do that last .. top right you can also TWR just where the old base was outside wonder but along valley )

Anyway have fun ....

 

[WobbleDee]

Well that "Cheat" is part of the mission to make it harder.

I understand the intent. I'm guessing that from a design perspective giving the AI the ability to cheat is to compensate for the AI's inability to compete against skilled human opponents. But when I'm playing I don't make much of a distinction between an AI cheating and a human opponent cheating.

Imagine if in PVP your opponent had unlimited resources, could respawn unlimited numbers of units at designated points and made a number of units several times stronger than your own. They probably wouldn't find many that would enjoy that sort of game mode. And that's just how I view it in legendary PVE. I understand some amount of scripting the AI to make it more difficult, but outright cheating? Nah. That's not fun to me, but to each their own.

I prefer to face an opponent that has the same limitations that I do. Maybe instead of cheating the AI could use the same consumables we have access to as human players? That combined with some creative scripting could make things more interesting but still fair.

Anyway, I realize I'm probably in a tiny minority that thinks the design basis of legendary missions leaves something to be desired. It could also just be that I'm a new-ish player and I don't have the best gear and skill. Maybe cheating opponents becomes fun as you progress. I'm sure it would also help if I would do them in co-op, since that would double the army population size.

 

[Exclusive0r]

I

Anyway, I realize I'm probably in a tiny minority that thinks the design basis of legendary missions leaves something to be desired. It could also just be that I'm a new-ish player and I don't have the best gear and skill. Maybe cheating opponents becomes fun as you progress. I'm sure it would also help if I would do them in co-op, since that would double the army population size.

I hear yas , and I was trying to help not put you down I thought I was answering a question and that never happens in PVP. Also it's a leg quest and without the respawns it really would be too easy for many players and there are lots of other leg quests to play ...
I solo'd the summer event quest several times and Im average ... well low average (Im slow and methodical and due to medical reasons I have dexterity probs with KSPM and hot keying ... )
I wouldn't give up when you can spam the spawns its not too hard ... the 2 bases can be got rid of and I was a bit pissed when I first tried but in the end I understood. So other quests I can only do in co op too . I don't try to solo everything , but the legacy legs are not to bad as you played them in the MS game

 

[Pipinghot]

I understand the intent. I'm guessing that from a design perspective giving the AI the ability to cheat is to compensate for the AI's inability to compete against skilled human opponents. But when I'm playing I don't make much of a distinction between an AI cheating and a human opponent cheating.

For the most part I agree with you.

For example, I remember hating BF1942 in PvE mode because the AI was specifically designed to punish you if you were doing well. It didn't matter where on the map you were, it didn't matter how good your position was, it didn't matter what weapon you were using, if you started killing too many of the enemy NPC's the game would just murder you with a cheat shot from some insane location far across the map.

Having said that, the Project Celeste team has to deal with the game we're playing. It's easy to say the words, to fix it with "some creative scripting" but that doesn't make it easy to do, it's probably not possible without rewriting the AI from scratch. Writing good AI is incredibly difficult, which is why the gaming industry still, to this day, publishes so many brand new games with bad AI.

If writing good AI was easy then every game would do it but most games don't, or are only moderately successful at best. And those are companies with teams of devs being paid to work on the game full time. If Microsoft didn't allocate the resources to make the AI better (and I'm not knocking MS, every game has to be developed with budgetary constraints in mind, and the MS devs created a fine game here) then it's going to be close to impossible for the Celeste team to make that happen. The underlying game engine that was inherited from MS has limitations and some of those limitations, like developing better AI, would almost certainly take waaay too much time for the Celeste team to do.

I'm not in any way saying that you should change your preferences, you should choose which games you like and which you don't. Rather I'm saying that this is the game they inherited and while we can certainly request features there is a limit to how much we can expect them to change the game. This is especially true in an area like AI which is quite difficult to improve.

 

[Aaron]

Of course they do. AI is not meant to provide a fair game. It's meant to provide a fun one. If you want to say infinite resource is cheating, how about the fact that in most RTS campaign (including this game), the AI start with more starting resource, building, units, better upgrades, etc? The alternative would be skirmish for 100% of the missions, which is probably not fun for anyone.

Given the number of building/units that the AI start with, they can crush you 100% of the time if they simply play optimally from the beginning. The mixture of "cheats" and "handicaps" (ex. AI doesn't send all its starting units to kill your base) is used to design an experience of ramping difficulty for the player, with spikes where the developers intended it.