By PF2K on Jun 29, 2019 at 9:49 AM
  1. PF2K

    PF2K Lead Artist | PvP Balance Team Lead
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    Header_-_Week_6.png
    Hello there Celeste players! We are back with another Roman reveal blog.

    As we develop the Romans, each week we will be revealing the Romans to you building by building, unit by unit, and technology by technology. We are not just showing you what the Romans will be, but showing you how we are building them, who is building them, and also why we are building them the way that we are.

    This week, we are revealing the Auxilia Camp, which is the Romans’ second military production building. We are also introducing the Balearic Slinger, who is the first unit available at the Auxilia Camp. And finally, as widely requested, we are showing you the Roman Guard Tower, both in its initial Age 2 version and after its Age 3 upgrade.

    Auxilia Camp
    =============
    Week_6_-_Auxilia_Camp_Closeup.png
    As we mentioned last week, Roman military buildings are categorized based on their military rank and historical origin of their units and not by what category of unit they train. So where the Castellum trains proper Roman citizen soldiers like the Legionary, the Auxilia Camp trains units of historically non-Roman origin. This is a little weird at first, so stick with us for a few minutes.

    First, before we explain the Roman system, it’s necessary to analyze the benefits of the traditional AoE military production trifecta of the Barracks, Archery Range, Stables that respectively trains infantry, ranged, and cavalry units (with some notable exceptions). This system is certainly the most intuitive way to organize a civ, and is one of the unwritten rules that apply to every Age of Empires game. New players immediately know what building trains what units. It’s simple. It's perfect.

    But these rules are also frequently broken. Egypt has no Archery Range, and trains ranged units both in its Barracks (Slingers) and in its Stables (Chariot Archers). Meanwhile, the Persians, Babylonians and the Celts also train Ranged units in their Stables. Plus, the Persians train their Immortals (an Infantry unit who also has a Ranged attack) in their own Unique building. Meanwhile, the Babylonian Stables trains only one Cavalry unit but trains three different Ranged units. All of these exceptions gum up and complicate the system.

    So the groundwork is already in place for something different. And then the Roman Empire marches forth.

    This Roman system of grouping units based on their geographic origin obviously makes no sense unless you are familiar with Roman history. But that is kind of the point. The original designer of the Romans explained to us that the intent was "to be true to the Roman history and to continue to push the boundaries for civ diversity." This system fits the Romans perfectly and feels more intuitive at perhaps a deeper, more authentic level.

    So let's talk about history. At Rome’s height (say from 300 BCE to 200 CE), Roman soldiers focused on almost exclusively Infantry and Siege and Roman armies fielded almost no Ranged or Cavalry units. They got away with this for a while until they met the mighty Carthaginians.(edited)

    By 300 BCE, Carthage was the richest empire on the Mediterranean and boasted not just the world’s most powerful navy, but a mighty army comprised of mercenary units from all over the known world. At this point, Rome didn't even control all of Italy, but it was very well organized and obviously destined for greatness. One of Rome's greatest traits was its adaptability to its enemies’ ideas. Hiring mercenaries to handle its Ranged and Cavalry needs was right out of the Carthaginian playbook. And after receiving the business end of that strategy for long enough, the Romans copied them and then never looked back. Around the time of the Roman Empire (49 BCE), the Auxilia had a permanent, formal role in the Roman army.

    And so hiring out most of their Ranged and Cavalry units is just what our Romans do. They called these hired troops the Auxilia. So we give them a separate building to train these Ranged and Cavalry units, the Auxilia Camp. Where the proper Roman army (Legionaries, etc.) were conscripted Roman citizens, the Auxilia came from Roman provinces who were subject to Rome but not Romans themselves.

    The Romans were hyper aware of citizenship, so it makes sense for our civ to be, as well. It would feel strange to train these unique units from around the world out of the same place that trains proper Roman units. If we mixed these troops right into the civ and sorted them all by unit type, it would just be awful history and a disservice to the game. And, again, there are at least 6 other military production buildings in the original 6 civs that break the old rules. So all the Roman system simply acknowledges the open secret that Archery Ranges and Stables in AoEO don’t always train whom they pretend to train. Instead the Romans rename the buildings to something historically accurate that give the civ its own unique flavor. You may not care whether a unit is a Roman citizen, but the Romans sure did.

    Does this mean every Ranged and Cavalry unit will be from an outer province? Absolutely not. But you will have to wait for a future blog post to find out what that means.

    Week_6_-_Auxilia_Camp_Height.png
    Week_6_-_Auxilia_Camp_Variants.png

    We ended up adjusting the 3d model because the concept art looked too similar to the Castellum for our liking. It also was far too short of a building. So we took some liberties and went through multiple different versions until we arrived at the final. We also made sure to change the building’s default direction to further differentiate it from the Castellum.

    Week_6_-_Auxilia_Camp_Revision.png
    Here's a view of the Auxilia Camp next to other civilizations' Stables and Archery Ranges:

    Week_6_-_StableArchery_Lineup.png
    So how is an Auxilia Camp different from a regular Stable and Archery Range buildings from some of the other civilizations? We use the technologies in the Auxilia Camp to provide some historical touchstones. The techs are called Sacramentum, Patronage, and Citizenship. We did not have records of all of the designed techs, and these are all our handiwork.

    Week_6_-_Auxilia_Camp_Techs.png

    1. Sacramentum: The very act of entering the army (including the Auxilia troops) had a religous aspect that owed much to Roman tradition. On enlistment, each recruit had to take a sacred oath (sacramentum). The Sacramentum Militare was the oath taken by soldiers in pledging their loyalty to the consul in the Republican era or later to the emperor. The text of the oath: "I shall faithfully execute all that the Emperor commands, I shall never desert the service, and I shall not seek to avoid death for the Roman republic."

    2. Patronage: Patronage (clientela) was the distinctive relationship in ancient Roman society between the patronus (plural patroni, "patron") and their cliens (plural clientes, "client"). The relationship was hierarchical, but obligations were mutual. As Rome expanded throughout the Republic and Empire, it took over smaller states which had their own customs and rules of law. Rather than attempting to remove the states' leaders and governments and replace them with Roman rulers, Rome created "client states." Leaders of these states were less powerful than Roman leaders and were required to turn to Rome as their patron state. Part of this deal required the outer provinces to provide Rome with troops.

    3. Citizenship: The Roman Auxilia consisted of non-citizens. Rome stationed the Auxilia far away from the province of their birth. So if there were a rebellion in a province, the soldiers would not sympathize with the rebels and would not defect. The Roman Auxilia was an attractive career choice for many people in Rome's provinces. It provided a steady income, and after 25 years of service, they would receive full Roman citizenship and a pension.

    Balearic Slinger
    ===============
    The Auxilia Camp is available in Age 2, and its first unit is the Balearic Slinger. The Balearic Slinger was also in the original design, and we found it to be the perfect unit for Rome’s Age 2. However, we will discuss how we chose units after we’ve revealed more of the tech trees.
    The Balearic Islands are located in the Mediterranean off the coast of Spain. They do not have many inhabitants today, and in ancient times, they had even fewer. But they were renowned for their Slingers. History is spotty, but it appears that the Phoenicians (the original founders of Carthage) were the first to recognize the islanders’ usefulness in warfare. Soon enough, the Phoenicians and Carthaginians were sending Balearic Slingers all over the Mediterranean.

    By the Second Punic War (218 BCE), Rome had finally seen enough and hired their own Balearic Slingers to deal with Carthage. And once Rome finally conquered the Carthaginians about 70 years later, they kept hiring foreign troops for many centuries. Eventually the Balearic Islands became part of the Roman Empire, and its residents became Roman subjects, but not necessarily Roman citizens. Accordingly, the units from the Auxilia Camp are historically from Rome’s provinces. But because of Roman custom, the units themselves were (and still are) identified as from where they came. So they aren’t just Slingers. They are Balearic Slingers.

    Here you can see the Balearic Slingers in Epic Armor (but no helmets):

    Week_6_-_Balearic_Slinger.png

    Guard Tower (Age II and Age III)
    ============================
    As per popular demand, here are the Age II and Age III versions of the Roman Guard Tower. We will be building four separate towers, though we expect that the Romans will only have upgrades to build the first three. The fourth tower will be available for the AI to use in quests, though. We also expect it to make an appearance in the City of Rome region.

    Week_6_-_Towers_Closeup.png
    Week_5_-_Tower1_Concept_to_Creation.png
    Here's how Roman Guard Towers look next to other civilizations' Towers (both in Age II and in Age III):

    Week_6_-_Age_2_Tower_Lineup.png
    Week_6_-_Age_3_Tower_Lineup.png
    Thank you for reading, and we will see you all next week!

    Project Celeste Development Team

    What do you think about Roman Towers, Auxilia Camps and Balearic Slingers? What would you like to see next? Let us know in the comments below!

    ========
    Missed the Roman Civilization's announcement? Find out about it HERE.

    Project Celeste is completely free and always will be. However, we gladly accept donations for our overhead costs, which are larger than we have budgeted. If you want to support us, you can do so HERE.

    Read every Romans related blog HERE.

    Tell your friends! Join our Discord HERE.
    ========
     
    DraCConiaN, Robcore, solar and 16 others like this.
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What Unit/Building would you like to see next? The top 2 will be selected for next week's blog!

  1. Spearman

    15 vote(s)
    31.3%
  2. Dock

    18 vote(s)
    37.5%
  3. Cretan Bowman

    11 vote(s)
    22.9%
  4. Siege Workshop

    7 vote(s)
    14.6%
  5. Age 2 Wall

    9 vote(s)
    18.8%
  6. Armory

    7 vote(s)
    14.6%
  7. Villager

    9 vote(s)
    18.8%
  8. Battering Ram

    6 vote(s)
    12.5%
  9. Other (Let us know in the comments below)

    1 vote(s)
    2.1%
Multiple votes are allowed.

Comments

Discussion in 'Romans' started by PF2K, Jun 29, 2019.

    1. Daantjuh-NL

      Daantjuh-NL Spearman

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      I really like how you guys stay close the history with these military buildings, it really fits the Roman civilization.

      I mostly like the design of the Auxilia camp, but the wooden top looks a bit out of place, but maybe ill get used to it. Seeing as Cretan bowmen will also train here I'm sad there is no range upgrade from the camp itself. The upgrades are great for pvp, but not really for pve IMO

      The slinger looks good, nothing more to say really

      The age 2 guard tower looks a bit odd, compared to the other towers it looks really small which is weird. The age 3 guard tower looks really good with the Roman flags on the sides.

      To summarize it's great that you guys stay as true to history as possible when making the Romans, can't wait to see more units and unique buildings. Keep up the great work guys!
       
    2. kyogo

      kyogo Villager

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      Hi guys, i hate being critical with you, after doing an hard work like that, but i dont like the idea of auxilia camp (romans had 3000 type of units, Why u have take units from other countries? Also auxilia trups were so weak and usless in army so powerfull) and the design of it and the guard tower. The roman Empire was the greatest empire the ancient history saw, and the gt appear ridiculous compared to others.
      Also roman building were done by stone, marble, cement etc. why are u using wood everywhere? And also stop punnting legionary’s shield everywhere, it could be boring.
      Except this things, i know you work hard every day and Thanks for everything, really.
       
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    3. Andy P XIII

      Andy P XIII Moderator
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      Kyogo, respectfully, what specific Roman ranged units are you suggesting we add? The Romans used Auxilia troops to dominate the world because their own ranged troops were weaker. If the actual Roman Empire used Auxilia, I would suggest ours should, too. If we gave them regular archers and slingers and cavalry archers, we’d be lying to you about history.
       
    4. kyogo

      kyogo Villager

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      I agree with u andy, i dont say to add them regular archers (like persian) or cavalry archers( trups never seen in an romans army).
      But the romans archer were the “Sagittarii” sagitta in latin means arrow. They were the long distance trups, sometimes the use “pilum” an infatry units Who throws javelin (like greek peltasta).
      Romans had an infatry focused army, they not need many long distance trups.
      So for me the idea of an auxilium camp u train a units like belearic slingers it doesn’t have much to do with it (also slingers are totaly usless in this game).
       
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    5. Andy P XIII

      Andy P XIII Moderator
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      Yeah, the Romans had some ranged units over the years. But in our era of the Romans (our Romans are built to resemble the late Republic, early Empire era), the Auxilia was such a major part of the army, that it makes sense to use it, especially since the original developers were intending to, as well.

      If we had focused on the middle Republic era of the Romans, back when Rome was fighting other Italian empires, we would definitely not add Auxilia. But the Empire was super diverse (and super self-conscious about citizenship). There were Emperors from all sorts of places (Gaul, Spain, Syria, Dalmatia, etc.) And there were specialized units from everywhere, too.

      We will show you our other Roman units, too. Don't worry! This civ will feel like the Romans.
       
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    6. kyogo

      kyogo Villager

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      Ok andy, i understand, thanks for explain. Iam so excited to see next trups, especially infantry and siege:D
       
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    7. Andy P XIII

      Andy P XIII Moderator
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      Me, too! Siege is going to be awesome. Let’s get that Siege Workshop up in the polls!
       
    8. Fristi61

      Fristi61 Spearman

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      Looks promising as usual!

      My only critique would be that the Auxilia Camp has a very "barracks-y" shape and layout, with the large building in the back half and lower side-walls on the front half. To a long time AoE player it more intuitively says "infantry" rather than "cavalry/archers", but I get that the building is supposed to blur this distinction anyway, which I am on board with.
      I think it could lead to some initial confusion between as players get used to it, but players will probably catch on quickly enough especially with the different default orientation.

      I fully agree with the decision to give Romans auxila ranged and cavalry units for the Late Republic-Early Imperial period.
      The Romans never had much native ranged troops besides giving the poorest of the poor some javelins or a sling if they couldn't even afford basic armor for melee.
      And while the Roman native cavalry (equites) were at times capable of beating even Thessalian cavalry in equal numbers, the Romans could only field a limited amount which wasn't enough as the Republic expanded and needed larger armies, and they were also not very useful against ranged cavalry such as the Numidians that the Carthaginians liked to hire.

      So, yeah, totally makes sense for the Late Republic/Early Empire.
       
    9. Dacio

      Dacio Spearman

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      I love that there is Balearic Slinger, more Spanish representation in the game, I love it
       
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    10. stammy

      stammy Villager

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      Well I support this guy idea I think youy will make the auxilia units like egyptian infantry cheap/weak and the castellum, propper roman units a bit costly but powerful, they should represent the mighty of the Roman Republic/Empire
       
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    11. RASPUTINPRIME

      RASPUTINPRIME Long Swordsman

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      Love the concert of the Auxilia CAmp and the delivery shown here today. The Roman Empire exceeded the reach of the prior empires because they knew how to develop cost-effective infrastructure and incorporate local practices and people into their machine. This concept captures this perfectly. I also love the slinger and look forward to seeing what other regions are pulled from.

      The towers are solid. Even more exciting would be to somehow see Roman Road grow between marketplaces and town centers.

      Keep up the outstanding work.
       
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    12. Andy P XIII

      Andy P XIII Moderator
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      That is really great to hear! Spain had such a huge role in so many civs -- Romans, Celts, Carthaginians/Phoenicians, but they don't quite have their own in this era. I am half Sicilian, so I am rooting for the Romans and the Carthaginians, too. Haha
       
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    13. Gaiacheck

      Gaiacheck Spearman

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      That's boring and unimaginative again. I'd love if you could have like 2-3 provinces to choose for every auxilla troop. It would be amazing for adaptability and personal prefference. Basically having the choice: Do I pick slinger for quick firing and moving short range anti-ranged? Maybe slower firing/moving javelin troop. Or maybe I need anti-infantry archer from yet another province? All flavorful and makes for interesting gameplay.
       
    14. Andy P XIII

      Andy P XIII Moderator
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      You probably need to find a different game to play. I can see we aren’t going to make you happy.

      We feel an obligation to the community to deliver them the lost Roman civilization as similar as possible to their original design. So our philosophy with designing the Romans is to follow the original design by GPG and if we are unable or unwilling to for some reason, then to err on the side of caution and trend toward the existing civs. There’s no room in that philosophy to take giant risks. We will eventually design our own civs. We will have plenty of room to expand civ diversity and take risks then. But before we blow the walls off the game, we need to learn carefully from those who built the game.

      I once drafted a blueprint for the Carthaginians that involved just that kind of choice you describe between two units each age. It also had another choice between techs. All told, that would be 64 different permutations of the tech tree. It would be sorta like AoM’s god choices but a bit deeper. At any rate, who knows where the future will take us, but we will definitely be coming up with lots of ideas if we ever get an opportunity to build our own civ from scratch.
       
      #15 Andy P XIII, Jun 30, 2019 at 12:04 AM
      Last edited: Jun 30, 2019
    15. NCSGeek

      NCSGeek Moderator
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      Always puts a smile on my face seeing these!
       
    16. TheSpaniard

      TheSpaniard Champion

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      As always, well done! Am I the only one wanting to see that Roman Armory??? let's get it in here!
       
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    17. TheSpaniard

      TheSpaniard Champion

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      This was just an initial thought, but now I'm even more convinced... will the Auxilia camp units cost gold only?! (I don't think this was outright stated, but seems to be hinted at)

      From the fact that, as you all alluded to, these units were historically "mercenaries" essentially hired from conquered regions, to the building icon having coins at the bottom, to the fact that the techs permanently reduce the cost, it seems like these units will cost gold only.

      That would be a first for AoEO as far as I know... except of course the Celt food only spearman. Would be a neat concept. Can't wait to watch as further details unfold!
       
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    18. Alzerus

      Alzerus Woad Raider

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      Really like your approach to this civilization with great thought and detail to history. Reminds me off a part of the recent survey by MS about AoE on it's historical accuracy and detail and am delighted to see you guys taking this would be great civilization in that manner. Great job so far on all your work, it's a true delight reading and viewing all new buildings/units in these updates, such clarity, engagement and closeness to the community is essential and warming. Regards to you all.
       
      Andy P XIII and PF2K like this.
    19. Leow193

      Leow193 Long Swordsman

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      Wait, isn't that spears instead of arrows in those towers ?
       
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