LMCG - Legendary Meta Community Guide

Discussion in 'PvE Tips & Tutorials' started by MsMuffins, May 11, 2019.

  1. MsMuffins

    MsMuffins Long Swordsman

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    Legendary Meta Community Guide WIP



    First of all just want to make this quite clear, I am not a top player, my macro in comparison to some top players is not great. However I can still manage to do any legendary co-op without a problem, of course some may take longer for me. But in any case, I have picked up strategies and in my experience of doing many legendaries, I think it would be best to put all useful information in one place for new players to find easily. I hope you find this guide useful!

    Contents
    1. Legendary Quest List
    2. Community Economy Tips
    3. Overall General Strategies
    4. Strategies/Unit compositions & Tier List
    5. Crete Leaderboard (to be created/WIP)
    6. Vick Solo Legendary Guide (Link)
    7. Youtube Links






    All Legendaries (Actually, will do a leg meta guide in seperate posts for each civ, but this will be the Main page for all links.)

    Legendary Quest List

    Classic



    Argos

    1. Breaking Bandits
    2. I know I’m losing you
    3. Impossible Cataclysm
    4. Rescue Me

    Cyprus


    1. Tamiat Triple Time
    2. The Renegade Escapade Grand Finale
    3. Soloi
    4. Paphos
    5. Marion


    Northern Holds

    1. Beorix Returns


    Crete

    1. Elite Meet (sleep) in crete
    2. (Other Crete legs, will add all soon)


    Celeste



    Athens

    1. Rebellion
    2. Traitors
    3. Efeso
    4. Myus
    5. Sardes
    6. Mileto
    7. Legendary 1v1

    Tarsos




    1. Holy man
    2. Thymbra
    3. Opis


    Babylon

    1. Susa
    2. Mad medo
    3. Euphrates
    4. Tigris


    Realms Of The World



    1. Alfheim
    2. Svartleheim
    3. Asgard
    4. Helheim
    5. Niflheim
    6. Muspelheim






    Finished/vick/jeinx/tzar/cmk/lifereloaded/Qaran CZ/Westinpieces people who's video I may use.
    Some are happy to help, others I'm not sure about, especially the old players as have no means of contacting them.


    Community Economy Tips


    More from PVE perspective, but some of these could be applied to PVP.


    1) Hunting, Berries & Farms

    • Huntables like deer gives fastest food gathering of all food resources, always prioritise first, Also shift click to quickly kill them all and place storehouse nearby for efficient gathering. Additionally to be even more efficient, space out villagers on each deer to avoid any collisions.

    • Berries should only be taken after any huntables or fish, and only with the storehouse upgrade for quick and efficient gathering, Again TC or storehouse should be close by to minimise seconds lost on walking to and from berries.

    • Farms is the final phase of food production, due to their high cost in wood, should only be used to boom in food & gold focused economies, wood & gold economies don't even need them. And in rare case like Babylon, gardens can give plenty of food so not many farms may be needed for say Lancer spam.

    2)Houses


    • Houses are always needed for Pop Cap, and altogether will always need 24 houses for 1200 wood, if you don't have reduce cost gear on them already. But some people make the mistake of just chucking down houses randomly, in certain quests, houses can be handy as a sort of temporary wall, Although legendary units will go through houses like nothing, they can be used smartly as sort of chokepoints, this is often seen more in PVP, but can be used well in PVE.
    3)Storehouses


    • Storehouses are quite important with their early upgrades and not only for effective placement for efficient gathering, but always remember for gold and stone, leave some space between storehouse and mine for villagers to mine, but not too much space.

    • As for upgrades, Key early upgrades is definitely the wood and huntables, stone can be good for early defence and stone conservation, but if there is little early pressure then focusing on booming and buying minimal upgrades is the way to go.

    • Also bare in mind this may depend on your economy style, food& gold focus more on food upgrades, wood& gold, just wood, in either case can get stone but can just as easily buy stone from markets when stone runs out.

    4)Markets


    • Markets are probably the most important part of your economy, it is imperative that you learn how to trade properly and efficiently.

    • In any leg quest you will need a market to trade resources, so putting them on a known ctrl+hotkey is basic and important macro.

    • So keep in mind, solo will give base gold for caravans trade, co-op gives double.

    • Distance between markets and town centres is a key part of trading, further away the more gold, however it will cap at 150, a common noob mistake is to put as far away as possible and think your fine as your getting 150 gold anyways. This is actually bad because 1 your caravans are travelling too far for 150 gold, 2 the final upgrade is useless in this case.

    • So, you will want to aim for a sweet spot around 120 gold(co-op), this can change depending on gear, but the idea is that once you get the final upgrade in market on Age 4 you will get to 150 gold and your caravans will be travelling at a optimum distance, making yourself far more efficient than someone trading much further away for same amount of gold.

    • Additionally you will want to keep your trade route as clean and clear as possible, never put a choke point for your caravans, this will slow them down to the point you wonder wheres your gold???, again you want to make your trade route as fast as possible so keeping it clear of buildings or wood is important.

    • Furthermore going for 2 markets to pump out caravans is the best for starters, if you can go for more markets only do so if you can keep up with resource cost of pumping out caravans on each market constantly, otherwise this is a waste of wood.

    • Lastly Caravans will automatically go to market which gives max gold, you can use this to your advantage when building markets and may only need 1 market at desired location, the other could be built elsewhere to save space or perhaps pump out caravans closer to trading town centre.

    • P.S Also always try to get the trade discount upgrades on market as early as possible for minimal resource lost in trading.

    5)Town Centres

    • Making town centres is a obvious and important part of your economy, pumping out more villagers = more resources = earlier boom = earlier push. So making more Town Centres to pump out villagers ia no brainer for most, but a mistake new players make is forgetting to build one straight away, most quests will give you enough wood and stone to build one straight away, in this case you will always want to, of course will also always want to get out a market as well.

    • So Simply build Town centres as soon as you can, ideally get 3 TC's pumping out constant villagers to boom your economy really quickly. And keep an eye on food production, you want to sustain the production till you reach the desired amount of villagers, this can be hard when huntables run out and have to resort to berries or farms, but never forget your market is your friend.


    6)Villager & Caravan Compositions



    • It is important to how you play to keep in mind how many villagers and caravans you build, more caravans = more gold to buy upgrades through market, more villagers to give one particular resource, like food or wood for the economic styles.

    • New players will rely on villagers more than caravans, advanced players will heavily rely upon markets through their macro skills. But generally in legendary quests, you will build as many villagers as what you need to get your economy going, its hard to pinpoint a specific guideline amount of each, as of course its different for each Civ, EG egypt caravans focused, and only really need villagers to build frontline forts for ele production.

    • But my advice would be as you get faster and more efficient to slowly rely upon market and caravans more than villagers, and once you've mastered macro, find your own sweet spot for each civ in terms of villager & caravan compositions.

    7)Resource Management


    • Resource management is pretty simple but very effective for keeping your economy booming efficiently, quite simply you just need to keep a eye on your resources and make sure none of them are stockpiling too much, if say you have too much gold lying about, invest it through market to boost your economy that much quicker, eventually this will become habit and you should get faster and faster.

    8)Economy Styles, food & gold, Wood & gold


    • As I mentioned before your economic styles will heavily influence how your economy develops, food & gold economies like Norse (berserker), Celt (Woad or Champs), Babylon (Lancers), will each need much more food production to sustain the output of these units when pushing. From my experience, a good 20 on farms in late game is enough to deal sustain production however if you prefer to go through markets with minimal farms or none at all, this is also fine.

    • Likewise Wood & gold will need much more wood production, Greek ( Gastaphetes), Persia (Archers), Egypt (Eles only need gold), the greek and persian example will need significant wood production to boost your economy fast enough and sustain the heavy wood cost of these ranged units, so can advise around 30-40 on wood.

    • Egypt being so unique with only needing gold (khepri), the only civ of its kind to do this and so the easiest to sustain with mass caravans.

    9)Early defense quests


    • In the case of quests where you will get attacked early and simply not enough time to boom your economy, a focus on getting up walls/guard towers/fortresses depending on optionals will be important.

    • However always keep your economy going at same time, of course keeping yourself and you partner alive is more important to actually beat the quest, BUT if you want to the beat the quest efficiently and in time, always keep your economy moving forward while you defend, so simply keep a balance of focus between economy and defenses.

    10)Docks, fishing & Merchant Ships


    • A often overlooked part of the game by new players, (AoE2 veterans will probably know this), but fishing is actually another fast source of food production, simply getting nearby fish with villagers or investing in a dock and couple fishing ships can give plenty of food for your economy.

    • Just keep in mind, fishing boats are expensive, and most maps won't have much fish, or uncontested fish if enemy ships are patrolling/taking it already. So you should see how much fish you have and build your fishing ships accordingly, the only real exception to this rule is euphrates in disorder, with its utterly insane amount of fish.

    • Merchant ships, generally the same rules that I mentioned earlier apply to merchants as well, keep them far away, keep the route clear.

    • However Merchants ship are bigger than caravans and are really clunky, so it is even more important to keep their routes clear or otherwise if both you and your partner are using a tight merchant trade route, a traffic jam is only a matter of time.

    • Additionally can build a couple docks each, and split production of merchant ships between each dock on each far side, this way could perhaps avoid traffic jams and keep merchant ships spaced apart.

    So overview, Generic economic focuses is your town centres, your market/dock trade routes, storehouse upgrades, whatever build order you do on any civ or legendary quest, these 3 things are absolutely key to having a early efficient start, you should prioritise these on any quests and eventually develop your own build order through these key economic components. (Also always keep in mind key information about each x) )




    Then after all these done, probably do 1 popular & easy strategy for each and every legendary quest, and commentate in video. Of course some legs are far from easy, but generally try to find the easiest way for new players to complete the legendary.









    Overall General Strategies:

      • Cavalry – War Elephants, Lancers, Hippikons, Cataphracts, all can do leg. (norse and celtic cav not good enough for leg I think.)

      • Infantry – Champions, woads, berserkers best, all can do leg, but greek hoplites, persian sparabara, babylon shields, can be great for tanking too. Additionally babylon sappers and noble swordsmen are great choices. Lastly immortals which are a solid choice for Classic legendaries, however for Celeste Legendaries might struggle.

      • Ranged& Siege – Greek Gastraphetes, persian archers best, toxotes & celtic archers good for ranged, rest can be good but really lack compared to these. As for seige, no brainer to go with palins/throwers, but Ballistas are a very strong choice aswell, other seige like War Wagons also handy in some situations.

      • Monks/priests – All legit apart from egypt ptah monks or so I’ve heard, of course have to go with mehrab to be effective.

      • Seige – In certain legendary quests where optionals cancel out a factions main unit for example egyptian eles or norse infantry, going full seige can be effective in co-op.

      • As for solo’s, not too sure, I’m aware a mix of units is important, especially frontline tank, and heavy damage ranged. Or in some case both are 1 unit like eles. But 99% of the time I do co-op and Vick has already covered Solo legendaries.

      • Additionally is the guard tower spam strategy, which in some quests can be very useful, a huge amount of Guard towers makes for equally huge DPS, this can simply hold off anything on its own except if AI get sneaky with their own long ranged siege. For example this strategy is great in Opis and Asgard to cut down units that go in a singular route.


      • Lastly Advisor units, now I don't really know how legit anything outside of greek advisors unit are for legendary, if someone could test each out would be great. Only other which could be good is perhaps the egyptian elephant advisor unit. But otherwise the greek heliopolis and soma are strong enough to hold their own in a nice tanky/dps combo. Tested in Classic leg Soloi and did manage to make time limit, but I was using my own Gastra & Palins as greek. So as a new player and struggling to gear up, grabbing these specific advisors which are fairly cheap in the global marketplace could get you into legendary quests quicker than usual.

    Strategies/Unit compositions & Tier List


    Tier definition


    S - Can quite frankly bulldoze through any legendary in the game except ofcourse optionals which exclude them.


    A - Still solid strong options for any legendary quest, however may require more skill or strategy to effectively do tougher Celeste quests


    B - Can do Classics without issue, but might struggle with Celeste legendary quests


    C - Anything I haven’t mentioned, these are quite frankly not viable to use in our current meta. Of Course some other units can be effective in given roles, but need serious gear and strategy to be viable or rely on alone to push. Also my guide is aimed at newer players, who should be aiming to go for the best and most accessible strategy).


    Additionally keep in mind, in certain specific cases, some units will shine more than even S ranked units, for example Sardes, Priests are generally the way to go. So this tier list is a general guide but not absolute in every quest!


    Also anything with for example S/A, means its borderline and can be stronger than its tier in certain quests as I said above.

    Multiple Civilisation combos
    1. Palin and priest S/A TIER (Ranged DPS & Converting(Egypt,babylon,greek&persia)


    Greek


      1. Gastraphetes and Palins S TIER (Ranged DPS)

      2. Gastraphetes and Ballistas A TIER (Ranged DPS)

      3. Hippikons A TIER (Melee DPS/ Tank)

      4. Hoplites & Gastra A TIER (Tank & Ranged DPS)

      5. Priests A TIER (Converting)

      6. Toxotes & Palin A/B TIER (Ranged DPS)

      7. Soma & heliopolis B TIER (Advisor)


    Egypt


    1. Elephants S TIER (Melee DPS/Tank)

    2. Palins A TIER (Ranged DPS)

    3. Priests A/B TIER (Converting)


    Celt


    1. Woads S TIER (Melee DPS)

    2. Champions A TIER (Melee DPS)

    3. Woads and Champions A TIER (Melee DPS)

    4. Celt bowmen & Throwers A TIER (Ranged DPS)

    5. Priest A/B Tier

    6. Spearmen B TIER (Melee DPS)

    7. Throwers B TIER (Ranged DPS)

    8. Longswords B Tier (Melee DPS)

    Druids should always be used as Celts (Damage buff/heal/rituals)







    Norse


    1. Berserkers S TIER (Melee DPS/Tank)

    2. Ulf A TIER (Melee DPS)

    3. Priest A TIER (Converting)

    4. Throwing Axeman B TIER (Ranged DPS)



    Persian


    1. Archers & Palins S TIER (Ranged DPS)

    2. Palins A TIER (Ranged DPS)

    3. Cataphracts A TIER (Tank/ MeleeDPS)

    4. Immortals S/A TIER (Ranged DPS)

    5. War Wagons A TIER (Ranged DPS)

    6. Priests S/A TIER (Converting)

    7. Sparabara A TIER (Tank, require a DPS)


    Babylon


    1. Lancers S TIER (Melee DPS)

    2. Priests S/A TIER (Converting)

    3. Royal guards & Sappers A TIER (Melee DPS)

    4. Palins A TIER (Ranged DPS)



    Romans Coming soon.




    As for Solo's, Vick has a written a guide found below, I will focus on Co-op.



    Please feel free to suggest anything else I have missed or challenge my ideas to discussion, I’d be very happy to change anything I’ve gotten wrong, ideal guide should have everyone's ideas. This is a community guide, not my own. :)




    I will update this as I go along^^

    MsMuffins :)

    Will be working on a GDOC with all on one page for now, Then I will likely seperate it per civ since well its going to be quite a long read.
    Solo Guide by the One and Only Vick ;)


    Youtube Links:
    Finishedblock
    Vick
    Jeinx (Elite/Alliance quests help here too!)
    LifeReloaded (Classic AoEO)
    CMK
    Qaran CZ (Classic AoEO)

     
    #1 MsMuffins, May 11, 2019 at 11:56 AM
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019 at 9:32 PM
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  3. Ardeshir

    Ardeshir Hippikon

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    Nice, this'll be real handy to have on hand. Good luck getting it fully fleshed out and with support from other runners with other viable strats or able to make more in depth comments. Can we get this stickied?
     
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  4. Exclusive0r

    Exclusive0r Hippikon

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    Wow thumbs up :D:D great idea
    AS you are doing co op will be covering "Roles" ? i.e. deciding before hand who is building what .. just building your own line up without complementing yr partner or duplicating your partner .. well I think a team that knows what it is doing is a "well oiled machine"
    Like A builds graphs / ballista (lwood) B builds Hyps Infantry (food) or A goes for early game B goes late .. Im sure you know what I mean it's just hard to describe ;);).
    Great Idea how can we help ??
     
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  5. MsMuffins

    MsMuffins Long Swordsman

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    Yes in some quests for example tigris, roles will be needed, however for most parts as long as each person knows what to do, Roles are not necessary. Like for example paphos, both will need a start up method for first time, but once early game is done and economy is booming, rest is straightforward, but this will be covered in a video.

    As for help, I'm thinking about how to do it, I realised I should be able to make my own videos, so I will do the main ones I've listed. But I would like to do a general guide on every legendary quest for every civ. So perhaps if someone doesn't mind, could pick a civ, and do a sort of noob friendly strategy on every quest on that civ. Then I will simply spectate&commentate to explain what they are doing. However on some maps, will simply be the same strategy no matter the civ. So we'll see for some eg breaking bandits.

    And ardeshir, Pf2k stickied this ^_^
     
    #4 MsMuffins, May 12, 2019 at 7:40 PM
    Last edited: May 12, 2019
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  6. MsMuffins

    MsMuffins Long Swordsman

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    Hi, Just a update to the LMCG, working on it again now, sorry for the delay, busy work and real life>.>

    I have now added a contents, and the economy tips from another post, and a new tier list as a sort of FAQ answer to many questions. It is still a WIP, and if anyone thinks it should be changed please say so!, I've asked a few specific people already but community feedback would be appreciated.

    Thanks Muffins x)
     
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  7. rtsgamer

    rtsgamer Berserker

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    Hi,

    What about priest / pali combo?!

    Most of the legs can be done solo with this combo...easy.

    And when playing babylone --->babylone quests even more easier, cuz u will get geared units converted.

    Same with persia --->athens quests.

    What about crete legs?!
    --->Even more cretins on coast etc.
    (Not for newbies, but can be written down?!)

    Another direction...
    Play for the rewards ---> Crete Leaderboard

    Greetz. And thx for ur nice wooooork ;)
     
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  8. MsMuffins

    MsMuffins Long Swordsman

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    Oh true good point with that combo, I mean monks alone generally strong, but to be precise people use most of these units in lots of different combos. If I list every single one, tier list will get quite long. But I will add as it is a S/A tier.

    Good point, I will change persia&babylon priests to S/A tier aswell.

    I think I didn't add the other crete legendaries for a specific reason(will investigate when I have time), but yes can be added anyways:)

    Oh good point!, forgot about adding crete leaderboards. Definitely should be here.
    Thanks for feedback!! x) Muffins^_^
     
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