Legendary meta discussion

Discussion in 'PvE General Discussion' started by MsMuffins, Apr 6, 2021.

  1. MsMuffins

    MsMuffins Champion

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    Im making this post to get a idea of how the current meta is and I will update the guide with input from here, so basically what I want to know is what units are now best with all the new advisors and especially for rome since I haven't really got my Romans well equipped to try out everything and especially don't have those amazing advisors which make certain units shine much more.

    So for those who have would really like if you could give your opinion on whats best, You can just copy and paste my list and adjust as you see fit. Anyone's opinion is welcome, if you could also justify your choice would be really helpful.

    Greek
      1. Gastraphetes and Palins S TIER (Ranged DPS)

      2. Gastraphetes and Ballistas A TIER (Ranged DPS)

      3. Hippikons A TIER (Melee DPS/ Tank)

      4. Hoplites & Gastra A TIER (Tank & Ranged DPS)

      5. Priests A TIER (Converting)

      6. Toxotes & Palin A/B TIER (Ranged DPS)

      7. Soma & heliopolis B TIER (Advisor)


    Egypt


    1. Elephants S TIER (Melee DPS/Tank)

    2. Palins A TIER (Ranged DPS)

    3. Priests A/B TIER (Converting)


    Celt


    1. Woads S TIER (Melee DPS)

    2. Champions A TIER (Melee DPS)

    3. Woads and Champions A TIER (Melee DPS)

    4. Celt bowmen & Throwers A TIER (Ranged DPS)

    5. Priest A/B Tier

    6. Spearmen B TIER (Melee DPS)

    7. Throwers B TIER (Ranged DPS)

    8. Longswords B Tier (Melee DPS)
    9. Cav?

    Druids should always be used as Celts (Damage buff/heal/rituals)







    Norse


    1. Berserkers S TIER (Melee DPS/Tank)

    2. Ulf A TIER (Melee DPS)

    3. Priest A TIER (Converting)

    4. Throwing Axeman B TIER (Ranged DPS)
    5. Cav?



    Persian


    1. Archers & Palins S TIER (Ranged DPS)

    2. Palins A TIER (Ranged DPS)

    3. Cataphracts A TIER (Tank/ MeleeDPS)

    4. Immortals S/A TIER (Ranged DPS)

    5. War Wagons A TIER (Ranged DPS)

    6. Priests S/A TIER (Converting)

    7. Sparabara A TIER (Tank, require a DPS)


    Babylon


    1. Lancers S TIER (Melee DPS)

    2. Priests S/A TIER (Converting)

    3. Royal guards & Sappers A TIER (Melee DPS)

    4. Palins A TIER (Ranged DPS)

    Rome
    1. Gallic Cav S/A?
    2. Legionaires S/A?
    3. Archers?
    4. Centurions?
    5. Equites?
    6. Scorpios?
     
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  3. destroyerarcher

    destroyerarcher Villager

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    Eques feel like an S/A tier choice as well, from what I've seen and heard from better players. Also, when possible, throwing in some Onagers is really helpful. Scorpios seem pretty bad so far and it'll probably get more buffs. I haven't played nearly enough with any other civ to really say anything else, though.
     
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  4. MsMuffins

    MsMuffins Champion

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    Yeah Eques seem to do leg quests just fine too, but im just not sure since mine aren't really geared so cant test their real potential, yeh onagers/palins generally useful like other civs counterparts. But yeh Im just hoping some more people can offer their opinions too ^^ I feel like scorps can be good with a co-op partner pushing, but alone its rough unless you have a tank, at first I thought they were like aoe gastra but their dps is abit lacking to single targets in comparison I feel?, yet to test them. Eventually I'll test everything myself when I get the items/advisors ^^
     
  5. frogs.poison

    frogs.poison Champion

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    So, I would put Norse Calv at A tier - Horsemen with Finnulfr. They become really tanky and you can easily get in and destroy key structures (TCs, production building) BUT they fall quite far behind Berserkers in terms of their ability to wipe out armies (It's not anywhere near close to the Berserker's ability to just annihilate most army, but it is quite strong vs heavy Calv such as Cataphracts and Elephants which Berserkers have slight trouble with).

    I would put Celt Calv at S tier - With Commontorios you go with a Horseman/Carpentom mix. Carpentoms really rain down the damage - With their baseline Splash, they can dish out incredible amounts of damage quickly. Celtic Horseman are quite tanky, and like the Norse Calv, can get in to destroy key structures quickly.
     
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  6. MsMuffins

    MsMuffins Champion

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    Thanks for your input:), I noticed those 2 new advisors buffing celt and norse cav so put *cav?* to see what people think, haven't tested them myself yet. Friends have also mentioned those particular cav being good now so they will be added ^^ (thanks for justifying too!)
     
  7. Geese

    Geese Berserker

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    I think your list is a decent starting point. There have been some meta shifts however due to advisor changes/additions and what have you.

    It is a bit challenging giving an overall tier list because the actual tier is very dependent on the quest being played itself so I'll try my best to keep that in mind.

    I've used your list and have adjusted it with some comments below each civ to give some insight.

    Greek
    1. Hoplites & Gastra/Tox S TIER (Tank & Ranged DPS)
    2. Hoplites and Ballistas S- TIER (Tank & Siege)
    3. Hypaspist + Ballista S- TIER (Melee DPS + Siege)
    4. Hippikons A-S TIER (Melee DPS)
    5. Priests A+ TIER (Converting)
    6. Toxotes/Gastra & Palin A+ TIER (Ranged DPS)
    7. Soma & heliopolis uninstall TIER

    Many easier legendary quests can be do with a ranged ball + palin. Also Hippikons can run train through a lot of legendaries. However overall the best comp for completing almost all legendaries is meat shield + ranged/siege. You can have a hoplite meat shield with tox/gastra and some ballista as well. Pure ballista with Themis advisor and Hoplites works very well in maps with tighter/narrow paths such as VoK. They suffer in open maps but I think it's still a ridiculously strong combo. Hoplites perform even better now with new advisors like Lycurgus. The new advisor affecting Hypas has skyrocketed them into viability and they have become a great choice especially in Roman legendaries.


    Egypt

    1. Elephants S TIER (Melee DPS/Tank)
    2. Infantry + Catapults S TIER ( Melee DPS/Siege)
    3. Elephant Archers A TIER (Ranged DPS)
    4. Chariot Archers/Camels B TIER (Melee/Ranged DPS)

    Despite Khepri nerfs Elephants are still the powerhouse for this civ however with the addition of Sobek's their infantry has become extremely strong especially backed with some catapults. The infantry outperform Elephants in many quests. Elephant archers are decent and Chariot and Camel are lagging a bit behind. There is a new advisor for Camels however I have not tested it but from heresay it hasn't been too impactful on their performance.


    Celt

    1. Champion/Longswords + Druids S TIER (Melee DPS)
    2. Horsemen A-S TIER (Melee DPS)
    3. Woads A-S TIER (Melee DPS)
    4. Celt bowmen & Throwers A TIER (Ranged DPS)

    The Brann nerf has had an impact for sure on Woads. They aren't the powerhouse they used to be however they are still able to clean up the majority of quests with relative ease. Champions with Druids and Longswords with Druids are extremely strong. The new Longsword advisor makes them very viable.

    Horsemen are very strong with the new advisor Cavarus which gives them like an 11 second train time. Can also add in a few Carpentoms to deal with strong ranged units or for some general AOE damage. Archers received a buff with the new advisor Ambiorix and are a solid choice as well albeit generally slower.


    Norse

    1. Berserkers+Ulf+Wardogs S TIER (Melee DPS/Tank)
    2. Horsemen S TIER (Melee DPS)
    3. Berserkers A-S Tier (Melee DPS)
    4. Throwing Axeman/Harjar A-B TIER (Melee DPS)

    The most consistent and well performing comp for very high end legendaries for myself personally is Berserkers + Ulfs + Wardogs with Vemundr as age 4 advisor. However for most other legendaries berserker spam and also Norse Horsemen spam with Finnulfr advisor works extremely well and is quicker. Axemen and Harjars received new advisors and perform adequately but cannot be compared to the S tier builds. Can also build some tanky archers with the new advisor for memes.


    Persian

    1. Immortals S+ TIER (Melee/Ranged)
    2. Bowmen + Spara shield S TIER (Ranged DPS)
    3. Cataphracts + Mounted Archer A-S TIER (Melee DPS / Ranged DPS)
    4. Priest + Palin A+ TIER (wololo)
    5. War Wagons A TIER (Ranged DPS)


    Immortals are the answer to almost every quest in existence unless there's a no infantry optional. With Esfandiyar they are really strong. Bowmen balls and Bowmen/Spara is also very strong especially with the addition of advisors like Kaveh and Bahram. Cataphracts shred many quests but adding some mounted archers to deal with strong anti-cavalry units is great too. Priests would be S+ tier ofc but many quests have a no priest optional. War Wagons are mostly unchanged and are a solid pick albeit a bit slower and also quite susceptible to very strong cavalry like eles.


    Babylon

    1. Chariot Archers S+ TIER (Ranged DPS)
    2. Lancers S TIER (Melee DPS)
    3. Royal Guards + Palins A-S TIER (Melee DPS)
    4. RG + Sappers A+ TIER (Melee DPS)
    5. Priests S/A TIER (Converting)

    Chariot archers are probably arguably the strongest unit for Babs with the Sargon advisor. Lancers are very close behind. As with cataphracts, you can also mix in some mounted archers with Lancers to combat tough anti-cavalry units or tough cav units in general for example elephants/Gallic horsemen/Eques. Sappers got a good buff with some advisor reworks and also with the addition of Makru as an advisor they are even more lethal for buildings. There are also builds centered around Siege towers however I have not personally tested so I can't provide a tier.


    Rome

    1. Legion + Aquilifier + Primus + Clinicus + Onager S TIER
    2. Gallic + Eques Spam with some officers A-S TIER
    3. Officer meat shield (with crassus) + siege back line and legions A-S TIER
    4. Officers + Legions + Cretan Bowmen + siege A-S TIER
    5. Scorpio Spam with some meat shield A-B TIER (not tested personally)
    6. Generally any single unit spam B-C tier


    As you can see Romans break away from the usual meta quite heavily. They have army compositions that work in lieu of single unit spams. The performance of some of the top tier comps are reliant on the availability of legendary advisors however.
     
  8. MsMuffins

    MsMuffins Champion

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    This is perfect, thank you very much for writing such a detailed response, helps me alot in updating the guide, was actually quite interesting to see and read on how stuff has changed other than guesses I have deduced from friends and discussions.

    But yup truly, really helpful, I may end just as well copy and pasting this over mine, if thats ok with you? because its just that good and thorough, though I'll prob reword the extra comments to give some info on each. So I dont literally C&P. Aswell as add some of my insight if I can.

    And I agree it is challenging to write a overall ranking quests since various quests will be exceptions with all the optionals and variety of AI unit compositions/maps. Still you nailed it, and since that list was made in like 2019 when celeste devs just made a unique big quest pack Well of Urd, they come along way since then.

    Is all interesting just how much advisors have changed everything, and especially with romans, certain comps being locked behind specific rare/expensive advisors makes it hard to see how they work for now. But Yup without a doubt Romans are very unique, being a custom made civ after all, that was the most interesting to see, I did try out legionaries with officers, solo'd marion after a lengthy push, wouldnt recommend legionaries there lol, just wanted to see, and with officers makes a big difference, without harder. Kinda like celts and druids. Norse with chief.

    Anyways rambling, not sure if there is much else to add to that but maybe someone will add to it, if not probably be something like this on the guide
     
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  9. Geese

    Geese Berserker

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    Not a problem. You can use the list however you like and feel free to add or adjust anything you see fit. It's mostly based on my opinion so I'm sure there is room for change/disagreement.

    Yeah the game has certainly changed quite a bit and all for the better too. Lots more viable units and comps :)
     
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  10. gamevideo113

    gamevideo113 Champion

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    My tierlist:

    Greeks
    1. Hoplites/Hypaspists + Ballista with Themistokles - S tier
    2. Toxotes with Alexander - S tier
    3. Hippikons with Apollonius - S tier
    4. Gastraphetes with any advisor - A tier
    5. Priests - A tier
    6. Prodromos with Apollonius - A tier
    7. Hoplites/Hypaspists + Ballista with Seleucus - A tier


    Egyptians
    1. Infantry and Catapults with Sobek - S tier
    2. Elephants and Catapults - S tier
    3. Elephants with Khepri or Hatshepsut- S tier
    4. Elephant Archers with Sekheth - A tier
    5. Chariots + Catapults with Seth- A tier
    6. Priests - A Tier


    Celts
    1. Champions + Druids with Brennos - S tier
    2. Woad Raiders with Brann - S tier
    3. Longswords with Acichorios - S tier
    4. Horsemen with Comontorios - A tier
    5. Bowmen with Ambiorix - A tier
    6. Carpentom with Comontorios - B tier


    Persians
    1. Immortals with Esfandiyar - S tier
    2. Magus - S tier
    3. Bowmen with Kaveh - A tier
    4. Bowmen with Timo - A tier
    5. War Wagon + Sparabara with Xerxes - A tier
    6. Cataphracts with Garshasp - A tier
    7. Takabara with Rostam - A tier
    8. Asabara with Rostam - A/B tier


    Romans
    1. Legionaries with Caesar - S tier
    2. Legionaries+Officers with Crassus - S tier
    3. Legionaries with Pompey - S tier
    4. Pontifex - S tier
    5. Gallic Horsemen with Pompey - S tier
    6. Eques with Pompey - A tier
    7. Gallic Horsemen with Mark Anthony - A tier
    8. Legionaries+Siege with Vitruvius - A tier

    Keep in mind you always want to have Onagers, Aquilifers, Clinici and Primus when possible when playing romans


    Babylonians
    1. Lancers + Mounted Archers with Nebuchadnezzar - S tier
    2. Chariot Archers with Sargon - S tier
    3. Priests - S tier
    4. Siege Towers + Royal Guards with Amytis - A tier
    5. Royal Guards with Zu - A tier
    6. Sappers with Zopyrus- (tbd)


    Norse
    1. Infantry + Dogs mix with Vemundr - S tier
    2. Horsemen with Finnulfr - S tier
    3. Berserker - A tier
    4. Harjar with Beorix - A/B tier
    5. Throwing Axemen with Bjorn or Vemundr - A/B tier
    6. Raiders with Ingrid - B tier
    7. Bowmen with Timo - B tier


    I didn't bother mentioning all the B and C tiers because they aren't that interesting and viable
     
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  11. MsMuffins

    MsMuffins Champion

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    Very helpful too thank you!, Helpful to add all relevant advisors too^^, probably will add that as well to make it easier for people to find the build/advisor they want to play legs with ^^

    Yup B&C tiers not that important anyway. Thanks again, will slowly try out some things myself and then compare with your lists.
     
  12. Gerkiki

    Gerkiki Spearman

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    Whats is your stuff on War dogs and ulfhedinn with vermundr please ? You do harjars ?
     
  13. gamevideo113

    gamevideo113 Champion

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  14. Gerkiki

    Gerkiki Spearman

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  15. gamevideo113

    gamevideo113 Champion

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    Weird. Anyway, the gear is:
    Cyprus Cohort Heavy Spear
    Athena's Blessed Tunic of Defense
    Greaves of the Ice King
     
  16. Gerkiki

    Gerkiki Spearman

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    Ok i see, thx for your answer :)
     
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