Gear Guide - Part 2 - Egyptian Unit (needs input)

Discussion in 'PvE Tips & Tutorials' started by Aryzel, Dec 10, 2019.

  1. Aryzel

    Aryzel Woad Raider

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    So part 2 in these series is on Egyptians (the civ I know least unfortunately) as a friend of mine has just hit lvl 40 with them.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...Ao61pzQyDTPILsaH6f_XTx-fXo/edit#gid=475453603

    The Basic items, when is what is most relevant to a new lvl 40 player is probably fairly ok, but what to use as best items, particularly for key Legendary quest units could use some input from more experienced players.

    You can find where gear is from (drops, quest, crafted) using https://search.projectceleste.com/ and see other choices there too. For crafted items ask in trade chat if none are on marketplace, same with items/advisors your are looking for. The community is friendly and generally happy to help out.

    You can see the impact of various choices on your units using https://unitstats.projectceleste.com/
     
    #1 Aryzel, Dec 10, 2019 at 6:47 PM
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2019
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  3. Aryzel

    Aryzel Woad Raider

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    Updated good bit with input from SystemGlitch. More input will be great too.
     
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  4. ABullishBear

    ABullishBear Woad Raider

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    This might just be me but as a (for now) mostly egypt player I prefer for villager a high stat kaveh, though I might need to reconsider that if your calculations are accurate.

    I like hyena wrapped gaff stick, I'm not sure the additional 0.3% would ever be worth me getting a max aegean contract.
     
    #3 ABullishBear, Dec 12, 2019 at 5:28 AM
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2019
  5. Ardeshir

    Ardeshir Immortal

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    Delian Archon's Hammer > Hammer of Kaveh > Divine Hammer of Construction unless you intend to tower the AI to death IMO
     
  6. Aryzel

    Aryzel Woad Raider

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    If you do no building at all, and 50 villagers gathering, then Kaveh gives you about 2 resource per second more then Construction hammer. Archon's hammer gives about 0.75 resource more than Kaveh in same situation. That is with zero building occurring, so is around the maximum advantage of those hammers. So they give you effect of having an extra 1-2 villagers if you've 50 villagers gathering.

    When you include build time effects, there is more variability depending on how much you build of course but as a sample scenario in my calculations page it cuts in half the resource difference (from your building villagers being able to return to gathering sooner). That calculation does not account for the effect that building a town center sooner would have on getting out villagers sooner. Which would further reduce the resource difference.

    So in effect, if you have a Kaveh or Archon and you swap it for a Construction, you will end up with almost the exact same amount of resources and still get buildings built faster.

    If there are scenarios where you are sure you don't need much construction, then maybe those hammers have use, Kaveh is also cheaper usually so is solid stepping stone.

    Quick comparison info:
    3% gathering difference is roughly equivalent to one extra villager, 1.5 resources per second, over course of game
    3% building rate difference is roughly equivalent to just over 1 second on most buildings (4 seconds on a fortress).
     
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  7. Ardeshir

    Ardeshir Immortal

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    What about 70 villager 20 caravan eco? And on Norse with infantry building? And the fact Kaveh is usually cheapest, and DHOC the most expensive?

    Sorry man, I know you have the maths downpat for a 50 villager eco, and factoring in all the other benefits of the build speed, but I do think that unless you're having to tower/wall up and tech to a3/4 to push to win, and I know legendary quests and higher crete and skirmish requires you to do so somewhat - I'd recommend Kaveh or Archon's for newbies and people attempting anything up to elite and some of the easier legs. Because of price and ease of gathering, as well as new players having bad tc timings and rallying too many villagers to build anyways, and that there are other ways to get build speed in your civ gear that are far cheaper than trying to eek out extra gathering on your villager's armor.
     
  8. Aryzel

    Aryzel Woad Raider

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    @Ardeshir did a quick calc for that scenario, its at the bottom of the Maths tab if you want to look but in short:

    70villagers, gathering wood (for highest gathering rate) for 20min, with zero building.
    Archon: 152,040 resources gathered
    Kaveh: 150,360 resources gathered (-1680 which is roughly effect of 0.8 villagers)
    Construction: 146,160 resources gathered (-5880 which is roughly effect of 2.8 villagers)
    Craftsman hammer: 144,480 resources gathered (-7560 which is roughly effect of 6.3 villagers)

    I guess depends on what people need/want to do, but don't think Archon is worth the money. Go Kaveh or Construction, and I'd lean toward Construction if at all possible.
     
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  9. Ardeshir

    Ardeshir Immortal

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    You are definitely correct that it is optimal then and us pvpers are wrong lol. I guess I'd shift the goalposts here and say I'd still go for the others at times if people desperately want to buy a legendary hammer, due to cost, or happen to find one to upgrade over a epic or rare :D

    How does movement speed compare to gather rate in terms of 0.1 to 0.1% value? and also on caravan travel to gold pickup? I'm being lazy now hahaha
     
  10. Aryzel

    Aryzel Woad Raider

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    Villager movement speed is hard to work out value, because you can decrease it a lot with good storehouses, and there are several carry capacity techs that help too. So don't expect villager movement speed to be something to improve with gear, we just need to play better :p

    For Caravans, I've gathered some data and done some graphs, but need to look at it some more and do more testing, probably won't get around to it too soon. But two quick pieces of info from it, caravans work out better than villagers for gold once they are getting about 40gold per trip, and to really max value you need to hit the optimal distance pretty close, don't want to overshoot it or undershoot it by much. This is just for pve, haven't gathered numbers in champion mode yet.
     
  11. Ardeshir

    Ardeshir Immortal

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    Nice work man, is there any way I can help? Haven't put much thought into stats/calc for a couple years so I'd probably need some direction!

    Would also be interested to compare tradeships to caravans in both pve and pvp. Am taking a liking to building a second dock and a single tradeship on defendable water (that I've already taken a dock for fishing) where I can. Adds to gold income without incurring more bottlenecking on the land!
     
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