Defense of Crete - how the points work

Discussion in 'PvE Tips & Tutorials' started by Aryzel, Aug 26, 2020.

  1. Aryzel

    Aryzel Champion

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    Faluzure and I have being working on figuring out how Crete works.

    See for a video of Faluzure doing solo 3.9mil score (from before we figured out the below, but was starting point for analysis and then did lots of little tests on first few minutes of games).
    Hope to add more videos in future that are suitable for various skill levels

    Full points breakdown sheet:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...EQsVJAoWvCqYLujgOA1fa7--E/edit#gid=1160268421

    Clear wave bonuses:
    For Myrtoan Sea the first wave gives 7000 points for clearing it, before next wave arrives. Each wave after that gives 7000x[wave number] points. So 14000 for wave 2, 21000 for wave 3 and so on, wave 30 gives 210,000 points. Total points is 3,255,000, so this is the big bulk of your points.
    - The sheet shows the points for all maps and difficulties (not 100% confirmed but initial values and trends have been)


    Unit kill points:
    You get a set value for each enemy unit you kill, this value increases with each wave and the amount it increases by gets bigger for harder maps/difficulties.

    So units have an initial value of 1 in wave 0 (obviously there are no units at this point, but is how the maths works), then each wave gives a bonus to this. So in wave 1 you get 1+1=2 points for each unit you kill. In wave 2 you get 1+1+1=3 points for each unit you kill, and so on, in wave 30 you get 31 points for each unit you kill.

    In harder difficulties/maps the increase amount is larger. So for Myrtoan Sea Impossible, wave 1 gives 1+10=11 points, wave 2 gives 1+10+10=21 points and wave 30 gives 301 points for each unit you kill.
    - See the sheet for breakdown of maps/difficulties.


    Resource Points:
    Each tree you tap for the first time (have a villager hit and get 1 resource from it), gives you points, the points value is the same as unit kill points described above for unit kill points.

    So in Sea of Crete Easy, trees an initial value of 1 in wave 0 then once each wave begins each tree gives a bonus to this value. So in wave 1 you get 1+1=2 points for each tree you tap. In wave 2 you get 1+1+1=3 points for each tree you tap, and so on, in wave 30 you get 31 points for each tree you tap.

    In harder difficulties/maps the increase amount is larger. So for Myrtoan Sea Impossible, wave 1 gives 1+10=11 points, wave 2 gives 1+10+10=21 points and wave 30 gives 301 points for each tree you tap for the first time.
    - See the sheet for breakdown of maps/difficulties.


    Additional Point Sources
    - TO DO - need to test macro resource gathering like gold, etc, but initial tests don't show any additional sources.


    COOP
    - TO DO
     
    #1 Aryzel, Aug 26, 2020 at 10:17 PM
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2020
    rtsgamer, Maavax, Hawkster and 3 others like this.
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  3. Faluzure

    Faluzure Woad Raider

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    This clearly seems to be a bug, as it makes no sense in a tower defense game where the objective is to kill the waves of enemies and protect the wonder would give points not for collecting a resource, but simply tapping on a tree once!

    Is this supposed to be or is it a bug? If it's a bug, how does one deal with the players who abused this?
     
  4. Aaron

    Aaron Berserker

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    I do not necessary consider this to be a bug, just like how I don't consider Dumnorix and market spam to be a bug. It's broken and abusive, yes, but that itself does not make it a bug. Whether it is a bug or just bad design will likely depends on the reason why chopping trees grants points. Are the trees somehow coded as neutral enemies, and chopping them down "kills" them? Or was it explicitly coded this way because the devs want some sort of randomness? Might be interesting to try killing trees with Norse fortress or siege weapons and see if you get points.

    Even if it is a bug, the tactic is not something that's bannable. For something to be bannable, it needs to be Enforceable, Discrete, and Warranted, and this fails all 3 criteria. http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/what-should-be-banned

    Anyways, in competitions like this, having a secret is detrimental to the meta-game and leads to stagnation. Now that the secret is out, let's see the meta evolve.
     
    #3 Aaron, Aug 27, 2020 at 6:16 AM
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2020
  5. Aaron

    Aaron Berserker

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    There's another question I have with this whole thing. Do the devs/mods knew about the formula? If so, should they have an obligation to tell us if we ask, like how they normally would for other mechanics in the game? (ex. drops, damage calculations, etc.) Presumably, if the formula is something more sensible (ex. total resource float / 1000), they would have no problem in telling us if the knew, and it would be up to the players to figure out how to maximize it.
     
    #4 Aaron, Aug 27, 2020 at 8:17 AM
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2020
  6. Faluzure

    Faluzure Woad Raider

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    From Discord: upload_2020-8-27_9-30-22.png

    This part really frustrates me. This is plain trolling. Was I wasting my time figuring out that tapping on trees is the gimmick? I did ask a couple of times for a Dev blog on how Crete scoring works. So either they didn't know, or they knew and were happy to let a select few people use it to top the leaderboard.
     
  7. frogs.poison

    frogs.poison Woad Raider

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    I did the calculations on the Trees based on the one time I was able to fully farm every single tree - I had 330k wood left over.

    Considering that there is roughly 3 100 wood trees to 1 200 wood tree (Or how it appears to me) we can say that, on average, we get 125 wood per tree.

    This yields roughly 2600 trees on the crete map I did.

    IF you somehow managed to chop down every tree in the very last wave, you would get 80600 points.

    I don't think trees are the answer here.
     
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  8. Unknown Maniac

    Unknown Maniac Champion

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    Thats the case for Sea of Crete on Easy difficulty. You can earn much more by playing on harder map/difficulty.
     
  9. frogs.poison

    frogs.poison Woad Raider

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    Aaah, yea. At 301 points per tree then that is significant.

    So yea, just chop the trees. Damn.
     
  10. CrimsonCantab

    CrimsonCantab Champion

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    I remember reading somewhere that losing units/buildings would cause you to lose points (or earn less points?). Has anyone verified that?
     
  11. Aryzel

    Aryzel Champion

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    @CrimsonCantab the above listed points sources are enough to get you to 4mil, losing units and buildings on the way doesn't hurt you with those points.

    Missing is a Survival bonus that occasionally happens. I haven't broken down how much points it gives or what triggers it, its not a huge point source it seems, but could be important for people pushing the 4.2-4.5mil range. I can confirm there isn't a direct point losses for losing units, (ie a unit/building dies and you immediate get -10 points for example). But the survival bonus might be linked to nothing dying, so losing units would affect score that way. I need to do some more tests, was waiting on new graphics card to make recording game as I play a bit better, but will try not to wait too long.
     
  12. rtsgamer

    rtsgamer Immortal

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    @Aryzel Does it make any Differences between civs? Cuz I get Questions, why people choosing to play with celts... greetz
     
  13. Aryzel

    Aryzel Champion

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    @rtsgamer don't think there is a civ difference, in terms of rewards, but some civs I can see being easier to execute. Greeks giving more tower dmg, though really its not essential. Babylon I can see being better at taking down all the trees due to the oxcarts. Maybe some other aspects like that.

    I did it on Norse and Faluzure on Egypt and we ended up almost exactly the same score, though we haven't perfected it yet.
     
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