Crafting School and Recipe Synergies

Discussion in 'PvE Tips & Tutorials' started by TuranianGhazi, Jan 15, 2021.

  1. TuranianGhazi

    TuranianGhazi Long Swordsman

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    Here's what I've learned to work for me, but please critique and offer better suggestions/improvements.

    What I've been doing is trying to pair mats as much as possible. For example, with my Persians my main civ (doesn't matter which, but your first lvl40) I paired Construction with Engineering. Why?

    I noticed that in Argos I can buy the recipe for the Blue consumables, so Bandit Tower and Stone Deposit respectively. Both of those blue plans need 74 Stone Blocks but different secondary ingredients of 24. Bandit Tower needs 24 Bronze Ingots.
    Meanwhile, Special Ability: Quarry Pit (Stone Deposit) requires 24 Oak Planks instead.
    Yet, they still share the 74 Stone Blocks as the "primary" ingredient!

    So then on just the first primary/main lvl40 1 civ, my workshop compsition of 8 allowable workshops is the following:
    2 Smelter Workshops producing Bronze Ingots every 30 minutes
    6 Mason workshops producing Stone Blocks every 15 minutes
    74 Stone Blocks to 24 Bronze Ingots is 3x, so I figured that for every 1 Smelter workshop producing Bronze Ingots, I needed 3 Mason workshops.

    However, later I realized that I didn't figure in the speed, so the difference of 30 minutes vs. 15 minutes, basically halves it. I'm now getting away with just 4 Stone Mason Workshops.

    This frees me up to have 2 workshops on Logger Workshop producing Oak Planks.

    Thus, with just one civ, I'm ensuring a steady supply of the two Blue consumables for my main civ and all other civs I'll level. Already, I have 5 Bandit Towers and 5 Stone Mines for my main civ and 5 more Bandit Towers and 5 more Stone Mines sitting in my Empire Vault for any of my OTHER leveling civs to use for tough missions.

    Another good combo like the above is Religion + Infantry because Religion's Golden Deposit shares the same primary ingredient of 74 Animal Hides with the Infantry's Bandit Spearmen, only the secondary ingredient of 24 Bronze Ingots for Religion's Golden Deposit is different from the 24 Olive Oild for Infantry's Bandit Spearmen. Regarding workshops, I've set up the same way as above:
    2 Smelter Workshops producing Bronze Ingots every 30 minutes (towards Religion's Golden Deposit consumable)
    4 Skinner Workshops producing Animal Hides every 15 minutes (primary ingredients towards both!)
    2 Farmer Workshops producing Olive Oil every 30 minutes (towards Infantry's Bandit Spearmen). I did this on my Babylonians.

    Third, I found a lot of recipes overlap somewhat, but not as neatly between Metalworking and Archery, so obviously Celts. Metalworking CRAFT's Mercenary Headhunters green costs 74 Animal Hides and 36 Pine Planks (so any overfill from Babylonians not needing anymore Animal Hides or Pine Planks goes to Celts). The above green Metalworking recipe has a nice synergy with Archery's blue Mercenary Bandit Archers which costs 74 Pine Panks and 24 Leather. Thus there is overlap on those Pine Planks! Yeah, the leather can always just be bought in a pinch. Plus, just today I got real lucky with a drop of "Dark-Flight Arrows" so I can't wait to lvl up Celts first, before my Greeks or Egyptians. Mainly because I have sooo many Metalworking recipes and now an Archery recipe that I hope will become a money maker for me on the Trade Channel.

    I stuck Craftsmen (blue Cow deposit) and Cavalry (blue Bandit Cavalry) on my Norse. Also, I got lucky with a drop of Blue Fire Ships, so actually my Norse is producing three blue consumables for himself and all the other civs! I don't really need now Greeks or Egyptians for my crafting... probably to fill the gaps, like in Leather and specialty goods. Two of my civs are pumping out Work Tools. I'm not sure about Gemcutter, Schrivener, so far I don't see which of my currently available recipes that would satisfy.

    How and where do I get recipes for Precision Tools, Ebony Planks, the higher-tier stuff? I don't see no store that sells them for Coin or EP? Are those recipes just drops from Treasures/rewards like everything else?

    What do you guys do for crafting? Does my setup make sense or does not?

    Please feel free to offer your constructive criticism and please suggest improvements on what I should be doing with my crafting. My goal was to be able to produce self-sufficiently on my own at least the blue recipe consumables from Argos to make leveling easier for my other civs after my MAIN primary Persian one.

    Cheers!
     
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  3. coolblade23

    coolblade23 Woad Raider

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    It is a nice setup, but at the end of the day you gotta ask yourself: "is it worth it ?". Most of the consumables tend to be ignored in quests especially the non epic ones as for the most part the blue-green-silver ones simply don't give enough of a boost to warren then in legendary quests. As for epic ones, not a lot of them are actively used either as they do very little in terms of boosting for a legendary quest.

    Most players skip all of the crafting of consumables and simply craft legendary items as they sell for a lot and grant a permanent buff to the civ.

    As for making low end materials ... they tend to not be worth it. If you finish a single legendary quest you can get about 10k gold with which you can buy from tarsos all the matterials you need and craft over 20 stacks of any consumables which makes generic non-epic materials fairly pointless or an inefficient use of your time. When you could use them to craft epic materials , sell them for say 3-4k per stack (or more for advance materials which tend to sell for 20k) and you can buy all other materials and craft what you need OR use the gold income to buy items on the market.
     
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  4. Provin915

    Provin915 Long Swordsman

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    You can buy recipes for advanced workshops on the global market or find them randomly in chests.

    Seems like a lot of ''work'' to maintain for rare consumables. Still cool though! :D

    I barely use any consumables and mostly produce epic materials to either sell or craft legendary items.

    Definitely agree on this part.
     
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  5. Aryzel

    Aryzel Berserker

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    For first civ, lvling up, my main focus on materials was building them up for the lvl 40 Empire Points Alliance quests, to get some free EP each week to get more empire vault slots. Some details for that here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...Ao61pzQyDTPILsaH6f_XTx-fXo/edit#gid=151282293

    The blue recipes are drops so best way to get them is from the marketplace or players selling them in trade channel, you can get most of them for 1-3k each.

    When you get geared and have cash to spare at lvl 40 then you can start picking up the epic materials recipes from marketplace. Generally most value from them is just selling the materials at least until you've got most of the gear you need to do any quest you try.

    For consumables, I find there are only a few that really make an impact. I created a list of all the resources and their costs, see https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...Ao61pzQyDTPILsaH6f_XTx-fXo/edit#gid=563732147 the color coding is which (in my personal opinion) are worth making and using, but do what works for you.
    There is a 2nd tab on that sheet, https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...Ao61pzQyDTPILsaH6f_XTx-fXo/edit#gid=391160061, that shows what you get from the consumable, overall health and overall dps are useful metrics. They just show the epic versions of the consumables, but proportions should give rough indications for green/blue versions.
     
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  6. TuranianGhazi

    TuranianGhazi Long Swordsman

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    Thank you very much guys (coolblade23, Provin915, and Aryzel) for your timely, valuable and guiding feedback!

    Aryzel, I've been followiong your Excel sheets, especially the "Leveling up gear upgrades" tab for my first civ, lvl40 Persians. I just noticed that one can turn in materials to the Alliance (Carthage Legion, Delian League, Oasis; we're technically part of all three alliances, very smart move by Project Celeste).

    Yes, I'll definitely re-organize my crafting then, per your suggestions, especially primed for producing mats for converting into Empire Points (I really need more Empire Vault slots!) and then for crafting once I get geared for epic materials/epic recipes and then towards legendaries. I'm just not there yet to get geared, fresh 40 and I'm having the difficulty bar raised suddenly. That lvl39 quest which I found easy before... I'm getting smacked on by lvl40 enemies in crazy good gear, high hp, and dmg. I can't even do barely lvl1-2 Legendaries solo... I know you have to co-op easier, but I'm more of a solo player, until I get my brothers back in here.

    Also, Aryzel, may you please explain the "Materials" tab. What do you mean to specialize each civ into "1 type?" For example, where is the specialization/synergy for Celts going Metalworking+Infantry vs. Metalworking+Archery for example? What's being lost or not specialized in my setup of Metalworking+Archery a s opposed to the secondary crafting school being Infantry. I'm afraid to lose my Dark Flight Arrows if I have to respec to Infantry, but early rather than not. Also, what's the specialization/synergy between Metalworking+Infantry being paired up specifically with the Gem Cutter Workshop? Why not another workshop? What's there to lose/gain? I don't understand. Oh please do enlighten me, good sir. Thanks! :D

    And do you mean then for Celts for example, ALL 8 workshops should be Skinners? What's your breakdown for producing mats? Probably only the green or higher mats that can be traded into EPs, right? And both Advanced Workshops be Gem Cutters? Same deal, only produce EP-convertible mats? It's easier to produce the green ones than the blue ones? So for Celts for example, start with ALL 8 Skinners producing Leather to be turned into EPs (to unlock all Empire Vault slots just to start things off)? Or not?

    What crafting schools if any do Egypt, Greek and Rome do?

    What 8 workshops do Greek and Rome do? You put down White Honey which is Farmer Workshop for Greek for example. Does that mean that you recommend Greek to have ALL 8 Workshops as Farmer Workshops producing nothing by White Honey? What do you use the White Honey for? Selling as ingredient for epic/legendary recipes or crafting them yourself? And for Greeks, Silk Cloth is Weaver workshop, so 2 Weaver Workshops producing nothing by Silk Cloth, right? And for Romans same thing but only 8 Logger Workshops producing nothing by Guyacan Planks, right? And for Advanced Workshops, same thing as Greeks, 2 Weaver Workshops producing nothing by Silk Cloth, right?

    Thanks in advance. I will await your feedback until I make these changes to my civs. Cheers!

    PS: You're right, with just farming the Ambrosia Obsession quests, I'm starting to get a healthy chunk of Coin, where I can just buy out the Blue Consumables rather than crafting them myself >_< Well it was fun leveling "work" I guess, but not for the long-term. It's just something for me to do before I can get geared and get epic/legendary recipes going.
     
  7. Aryzel

    Aryzel Berserker

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    For crafting schools, metalworking (celt only), archery etc, put them where ever you like, whats listed there is just where I have them, which was semi-random, aside from metalworking being celt only the rest can go anywhere.

    For materials workshops, the choice of what materials for what civs is random, the list just shows what i've got. The reason to specialise is that the recipes are learnt per civ. So for example say you have Logger workshops on your celts, you learn the oak and ebony plank recipes, now your celt logger workshops can produce oak and ebony. If you make a logger workshop on Egypt, those workshops will only know the default recipes, not ebony you learn on celts. For green and blue recipes its not a big deal, but when you start buying epic recipes the cost adds up. I've recently started moving away from this approach again, because I can afford multiple epic material recipes and want to focus my manufacturing system on creating just Hadrian's Walls mostly. So you should decide for yourself what you want to focus on, but being efficient with your coin is usually a safe choice. You can have civs producing materials from lvl 1, so what i did was setup them 5 civs with production shops even before I levelled them up and send new material recipes to whichever civ was specialising in that type of workshop.

    For Greeks I've just got the one recipe on it, hadn't set it up to do blue/green materials at all. For Rome I've just listed what I plan to put on it. Once you can start making epic materials, you can kinda ignore green/blue and just buy what you need when you need it. The Summer and Autumn events have quests that let players hand in a stack of epic materials for event points, this drives up the sell price of epic materials to 3-6k a stack. A strong approach to material production is to make epic materials and sell them to players during these two events. All depends on your needs, I don't bother with that anymore. Selling the Advanced workshop epic materials all year around is great consistent money maker too.

    [one note for EP, do the Crete, defense of crete leader board, try to do solo and coop to get more EP, it really pays out amazingly well, you can do easy difficulty, still gets you lots of points]
     
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