Age 1 advisors

Discussion in 'PvE Tips & Tutorials' started by Aryzel, Feb 11, 2020.

  1. Aryzel

    Aryzel Champion

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    Hey all,
    Was doing a first look at the age 1 advisors, analysing their strengths value. Before i do more it would be cool to hear what other people think, calculated or experienced.

    Apprentice Mason Philon
    - 20% build time.
    - 5-6sec on TC, leading to ~250 resources over time from earlier vils. Plus ~400sec more .gathering time over early-mid game ~600 resources. So ~850 total.
    - My feeling is could be great if you don't have divine construction hammer, and easier to swap out if you do have the Divine construction hammer, as that hammers 50% build rate means that the 20% from Philon is less impactful.

    Closet Organizer Irene
    - Storehouse upgrades cost 75% less.
    - Saves 2000+ resources (less for greeks and half for babylon). This excludes the gold mine techs, as you use caravans instead, also excludes hunting dogs as often don't need that. Also there is an impact, not included here on the time you gather at the higher rate from the tech because you got the tech sooner due to lower cost.

    Lumberjack Thutmose
    - Vils gather 8% more wood from trees.
    - Tested: Gives 8% faster gather rate for wood and also 8% more capacity for wood, no conservation of wood.

    Net Maker Aapep
    - Vils gather Food 12% faster from fish, berries, huntables
    - Tested: Gives 12% faster gathering from fish,berries huntables, no capacity increase and no conservation
    - Most food from farms, so just use this for specific quests

    Odysseus
    - Barracks cost 15% less.
    - Saves 30 wood per barracks, for 30 barracks saves 900 wood.

    Rockhound Erastos
    - Vils gather 25% more stone from stone mines.
    - Tested: Gives 25% Faster gather rate for stone, 25% more capacity for stone and also 25% conservation of stone.
    - Use for specific quests

    Miner Kleon
    - Vils gather 15% more gold from gold mines.
    - Tested: Gives 15% Faster gather rate for gold, 15% more capacity for gold and also 15% conservation of gold
    - For specific quests, in general use caravans

    Slace Driver Zephyros
    - Vils move 25% faster and carry 25% more.
    - Looks like its at 5-10% gathering rate increase, with vils move for 1-3sec to dropoff. Need to do a bit more testing and calculations to model and turn this into some resource estimates.

    Woodsman Weylin
    - Houses cost 75% less wood and build in 50% less time for 24 houses, this is 900 wood saved and say 170sec of build time saved =~250 resources = 1150 TOTAL

    Prince Nial Muighmedon
    - Storehouses and Ox Cards cost 75% less and build in 50% less time.
    - For 30 storehouses, this is ~1125 wood saved and say 200sec of build time saved =~300 resources = 1425 TOTAL

    Survivalist Agathon
    - Vils cost 20% less food and have 50% more health ~600 food (60 vils at 50 food each)

    Other advisors are non-economic for specific cases
     
    #1 Aryzel, Feb 11, 2020 at 11:17 PM
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2020
    MainMan B, Ardeshir and Kire like this.
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  3. Kire

    Kire Game Developer

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    i feel like Closet Organizer Irene is just the best one, you can get all the techs realy early on as they are cheap and those make you gather stuff so much quicker. not only does she save you resources but you also get them faster after it :)
     
  4. bbgambini

    bbgambini Berserker

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    Im starting to like Slave Driver Zephyros
     
  5. AgeOfVampires

    AgeOfVampires Villager

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    Good to see a comparison based of resources.

    Not that it matters much as its one of the worst options, I think you have lumberjack wrong. I dont think you save much time at all wood gathering, because it just works like conservation and not gather speed.

    Otherwise it would just say, "gather wood 8% faster"
     
  6. Aman

    Aman Woad Raider

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    Apprentice Mason Philon is fantastic, top tier, for Egypt and especially Norse where infantry builds and cannot have hammers... also I disagree with the analysis, there is good synergy with DHOC; it may mean that Philion removes 2 seconds instead of 3 seconds from each house, but that is still a lot of time saved, and villager time is precious - also it feels quick and smooth to have houses built at 6seconds rather than 8seconds.

    Closet Organizer Irene always offers a great economy curve especially for Greeks who can just auto-upgrade each age - this ends up speeding things a lot.

    Slave Driver Zephyros feels the most smooth and you can lazy on about without building a storehouse every 2m in the treeline - however if you are used to PvP this should be a habit, making the advisor less efficient for gathering though still enjoyable for villager movement assuming you want to build fa.

    These three are top tier imo, the rest really dont compare or are circumstantial...
    You are right that caravans ultimately play the major role, so the age I advisors are about saving time, and in my experience Philon and Irene end up saving the most by giving you the earliest start (again, Philon builds markets faster, so gold income faster, boom faster - and for similar reasons Irene)
     
  7. Aryzel

    Aryzel Champion

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    good points all, i need to do some more analysis/tests, its tricky to cover all the side effects.
     
  8. Geese

    Geese Champion

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    I use philon on everything. Too used to the fast build time in conjunction with DHOC.

    The eco is always carried by caravans and theres really no legeendary that I've played where that's not the case. I feel investing in villager gathering rates is kind of a waste especially in the longer run when philon works much better in establishing forward bases. The increased synergy with Egypt and Norse has already been mentioned and I'd say it has better than average synergy for Babs as well in terms of making gardens faster.

    Geese
     
  9. Aryzel

    Aryzel Champion

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    I used to think that too @SAAD about philon, but i'm starting to question if its really true.
    If you have a divine construction hammer and the 8% build speed milestone, a barracks builds in 23.1sec, Mason on top of that only brings it down to 18.5 sec, just 4.6sec longer per barracks for forward bases. And if you use multiple villagers to build that reduces even further, with 2vils per barracks its a 3.4s saving, and with 3vils its 2.8sec per barracks.

    On the economy side i need to do a bit more calculations and probably some in game tests, to see how practical the differences are when used in games, but rough numbers above make it seem like Philon might not be as impactful as other advisors at least in the particular case where you have the divine construction hammer and 8% build speed milestone.
     
  10. Geese

    Geese Champion

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    Yeah I am certain with the analysis and numbers it may be that Philon is not as impactful as you say, but for me its more of a feel.

    Even though my eco and overall performance might not be as heavily impacted as I think, I would certainly notice the absence of Philon which would kind of throw me off my game.

    In no way is Philon, objectively the best advisor for age 1, but he feels like the best for me personally.
     
  11. Aryzel

    Aryzel Champion

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    Ya, get that, and picking what feels good is definitely solid approach. I've being using Philon for ages now myself too. Wanted to make it more clinical though, figure out if there are real differences or if its close enough that personal choice is main deciding factor. Will post info and experience when i get time to compare them more.
     
  12. Aryzel

    Aryzel Champion

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    Did a few tests:

    Lumberjack Thutmose
    Tested: Gives 8% faster gather rate for wood and also 8% more capacity for wood, no conservation of wood.

    Net Maker Aapep
    Tested: Gives 12% faster gathering from fish,berries huntables, no capacity increase and no conservation.

    Rockhound Erastos
    Tested: Gives 25% Faster gather rate for stone, 25% more capacity for stone and also 25% conservation of stone.

    Miner Kleon
    Tested: Gives 15% Faster gather rate for gold, 15% more capacity for gold and also 15% conservation of gold .


    Used Irene and then Mason on easy skirmish mode, getting from age 1 to age 4 as efficiently as i could, didn't build any military. Irene seems to get me there slightly faster (7min50sec vs 8min:30sec for Mason), but is marginal, not sure i'd distinguish it from variation in my efficiency. Will do more tests in more realistic legendary scenarios next, starting at age 2/3 with lots of resources and see what happens in that case.
     
  13. Unknown Maniac

    Unknown Maniac Champion

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    I tested Thutmose, Erastos and Kleon and you are right. I think these should get their description changed, it s confusing. it says 'gather more' but what does that mean? Conservation or gather rate? You don t know until you test them like this and one of them is missing the conservation.
     
  14. bbgambini

    bbgambini Berserker

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    try slave driver on egypt with and without princess of ra (=

    test slave driver VS irene on any civ
     
  15. Ardeshir

    Ardeshir Immortal

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    These two don't sound too bad actually for short (levelling and minigame) quests you know you're going to win by age 3, at least, compared to the rax cost reduction one. Bearing in mind babs gets higher vil counts earlier with muighmedon (and save 37.5 food on top of the 37.5 wood per), so it's doubly good on them. Muighmedon makes storehouse heavy macro play in general, as well as aidtent play on Persia, super simple.

    Zephyros is worth more to folks who are typically slow to remake woodline storehouses, while folks who add more every couple minutes see less benefit, but at between 5 and 10% it's comparable to an eco tech being applied all game long still, for all resources.
     
  16. Aaron

    Aaron Berserker

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    I think Philon's real benefit isn't resources, but rather for the times when you are population blocked and building a trust fund, or screwed up and need to panic build towers. Similarly, Zephyros's side benefit is that you can bring vills to the front line for forward buildings faster.
     
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  17. Ardeshir

    Ardeshir Immortal

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    Definitely. Saving workers, rerallying workers long distance, and even getting quicker fast static defense or proxied stuff out cause the vills get there earlier are all nice boons from Zephyros, and Philon can get the actual defenses or missing houses up faster. Muighmedon works a bit the same, where late/missed storehouses for gathering, or aidtenting on persia, or needing to replace lots of ox carts on babs is much simpler when the build time is near nothing. Really helps they all provide the most eco benefit on paper too lol
     
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