By PF2K on Sep 3, 2022 at 5:27 PM
  1. PF2K

    PF2K Lead Developer
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    Hello there Celeste players! Today we are continuing to reveal various Indian units and buildings as they roll off the conveyor belt.

    Ram
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    When we began building the Indians back in the Spring of 2021, we had already formed complete visions of nearly every unit and building. However, the Indian Ram was the lone exception. In designing a civ’s units, we always start with actual history and facts. Then we take those facts and try to express them into the normal gameplay constraints and Age of Empires Online design rules that we have discussed in these blogs for years.

    So the Indian Ram. To begin, remember that the game design essentially dictates that every civ in our game must have a Ram unit that is (1) an anti-Building (2) Siege unit that (3) does crush melee damage, and (4) becomes available in Age 3. Also, other than in the case of the Champion upgrade to the Norse Ram (the Farbjodr), every Ram (5) can attack only buildings.

    With that background, we hit the history books. The historical record can be a little tricky with siege weapons, since they don’t often survive through archeology and contemporary written descriptions of machines can get mangled through translation. Meanwhile, in India’s case, it appears that for all purposes, if an Indian army wanted to bust through a wall, they were using an elephant. As one secondary source summarized, “Regarding siege equipment, possibly, battering rams were used, but not much evidence is available here. However, the infantry while scaling the walls would have used ladders or ropes. When it came to assaulting city or fort walls, elephants were given a much more significant role.”

    That makes sense but since an elephant isn’t normally classified as a Siege unit, it doesn’t perfectly lend itself to our five-prong definition of a Ram. But certainly if the Farbjodr (giant dude swinging a ball and chain) can be a Siege unit, then so could some kind of elephant. And we certainly want to give the Indians lots of elephants.

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    But on the other hand, we already are giving the Indians lots of elephant units, and we need to be mindful of not oversaturating them with elephants. If we made too many, we’d cause visual overload and the entire screen would be filled with more elephants than anyone could easily identify. This caused us to think about some kind of mechanical Ram (like most civs) or a human powered one (like the Celts and Norse).

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    We touched on this in the last blog, but we ended up ruling out a traditional mechanical Ram because we need the unit to train from the Fortress and all mechanical Rams have so far trained from Siege Workshops (which the Indians do not have) and all human powered Rams train from Fortresses.

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    Over the months we went around and around on this. The historical pressure kept pushing us back towards some kind of elephant ram, and as a group we continued to brainstorm ways to visually distinguish it. Here are some of the highlights.

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    Here you can see Max’s first concept, which he made simply by plopping a Greek Battering Ram between two existing Elephant assets. He ran with that for a bit and got this far:

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    This double elephant was very tempting, but Max quickly realized that a unit that wide would have serious logistical issues turning around (especially turning around in place, which units frequently do in battles). There really would be no way to artfully pull that off – either the elephants would magically switch directions or they would need to walk around in a giant circle, which would be super awkward visually and super frustrating in gameplay.

    We again put the unit on ice for a number of months to work on other units. Ultimately we arrived at a human powered Ram. About three weeks ago, Eamon took a swing at him.

    As for the name, we are simply calling him a Ram, which mirrors the Celts human powered unit. We probably could have given it some kind of Indian-specific name in line with the Norse Farbjodr, but there wasn’t an obvious choice, the Indians already have a healthy dose of immersive names (Gada Warrior, Guru, Turanga, Juggernaut, Vimana) and there is no reason to shoehorn one into position here. Keep it simple. He’s a Ram.

    Sacred Cow
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    We first introduced the Sacred Cow back in November, and we return to it now that its model and icon are finished. As you may recall, starting in Age 2, the Indians can build a Shrine, which is a second religious themed building. When herdables are placed before it, the Shrine will generate resources and automatically spawn the Club Monkey and the Fire Monkey (though this is subject to change as we playtest). You can also train Sacred Cows at the Shrine, which act identically as herdables. Essentially, Sacred Cows are identical to regular Cows exactly as Sacred Deer are identical to regular Deer.

    But wait, there's more! We are also adding a new type of Gaia Cow to some new Indian themed maps. As you all know, Age of Empires games are constantly expanding its Gaia biodiversity, and we are always on the lookout for new animals and plants to add to the game. This is a cherished, fairly understated part of good Age of Empires design.

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    More Capital City Buildings
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    As more capital city buildings are being built for the Indians, we reveal them to you one by one. There are several buildings that are shared amongst all civilizations, which include the Crafting Hall, Treasury, Trade Dock and Port. You can check the Indian version of these buildings here.

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    Gada Warrior Gear Progression
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    Being the main infantry unit of the Indians, we revealed the Gada Warrior in an earlier blog. But now we have all the different visual variations of the model ready, and here they are!

    Gatherer Elephant Gear Progression
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    Vimana Gear Progression
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    For the the next blog, we will be revealing the artwork of all Indian Advisors, as well as their Milestones. Stay tuned!
    Thanks for reading, and we look forward to revealing more of the Indians again shortly as we pick up the pace. Please let us know your thoughts and questions below!

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    Project Celeste Development Team

    What do you think about this week's blog? What would you like to see next? Let us know in the comments below!

    ========
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    Project Celeste is completely free and always will be. However, we gladly accept donations for our overhead costs, which are larger than we have budgeted. If you want to support us, you can do so HERE.

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    #1 PF2K, Sep 3, 2022 at 5:27 PM
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2022
    BOSAIF, AC/DC, purpleganja and 16 others like this.
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Comments

Discussion in 'Indians' started by PF2K, Sep 3, 2022.

    1. LusidPixel

      LusidPixel Villager

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      upload_2022-9-6_13-4-57.png
      The launcher lists this dev blog as #9 when it should be #10
       
      Andy P XIII and CrimsonCantab like this.
    2. Andy P XIII

      Andy P XIII Moderator
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      Thanks. I believe that would trace back to a typo by me on the draft I sent to PF2K.
       
    3. Andy P XIII

      Andy P XIII Moderator
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      I concede that the Indians could make an argument that they should be the one civ without a ram. However, were we to ever make a civ without a ram, I’d want the civ to still have some siege in Age 3, and I don’t believe such a unit would fit the Indians. It’s a very interesting question.

      tbh I’m not sure it’d be correct to make a civ without a ram. There are several units in the game that every civ seems to need and I’m not sure any could be avoided — villager, scout, spearman, caravan, fishing ship, merchant transport, ram, and age 4 trebuchet (Pali/stone thrower, etc.)
       
      Lordgarmadon likes this.
    4. Lordgarmadon

      Lordgarmadon Spearman

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      Turk or Chinese civ in the future instead of siege just make a cannon hahaha and age 4 idk samurai that deals mele and range damage like the immortal for chinese and maybe gunners for turks tho guns in age of empire games kinda feels stupid mythology stuff is way better hmm turk age 4 siege unit could be a balista that fires 2 or 3 projectiles at once idk really but Im sure you guys will make this game the best one possible tho wish it could be made a solo game since I have bad wifi and thats just how it is where Im from so game kinda lags a lot wish I could play the game solo and not the offline mode but you know what I mean
       
    5. frogs.poison

      frogs.poison Immortal

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      Heya. Will the Indian Ram have a static ram head like Rome and Norse, in which a single ram head model is used based on rarity, or will it's ram head be like Greeks, Celts, Egypt, Persia, and Babylon Siege Tower, in which the ram head model changes depending on which Ram head is equipped?

      @PF2K
       
      #25 frogs.poison, Sep 9, 2022 at 2:22 AM
      Last edited: Sep 10, 2022
    6. Kulcsos12

      Kulcsos12 Hippikon

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      When we said Siege Elephant would be a better choice we didn't said the Indians wouldn't had a ram unit. The Siege Elephant would be their Ram. Look:
      1. Anti-building? Yes. Battering Rams and Siege Towers have 6x, Celtic ram 4x, Farbjord 2x bonus vs building. Even a Babylonian Sapper has a 3x bonus vs building as an Infantry. The Indian Elephant should has 4-5x bonus because it has a bigger force compared to other "biological" ram units.
      2. Siege unit? Could be. Celtic Rams and Farbjord are also Siege units. Why an elephant can't be a siege unit? Especially when they were a siege units in history.
      3. Crush melee damage? Yes. If the Siege Elephant use its forehead as a weapon to knock down walls and buildings it could be categorized as a crush damage. Egyptian elephants use their feet and tusks to make melee damage to everything nearby. This difference should be enough to give different damage category.
      4. Age 3? Yes. But in the Mahout Camp. (Maybe the Indians will get too much unit from there in Age 3...) Fortress with Palintonon can be on the Utility tab. (What complete another rule: Ram and Long-range siege can be trained in the Fortress if they are both "biological". If the Palintonon is "mechanical" and built in the Fortress, its always alone there.)
      5. Attack only buildings? If the Siege Elephant use their forehead as a weapon it could be a reason to make them that way because they don't lean down to knock small infatries down there.
      6. Oversaturated with elephants? 5 elephants plus the Gatherer Elephant don't look like oversaturated. Don't forget the Babylonians has 5 ranged units and a Siege Tower with ranged attack, while the Norse has 5 infatry units and a Cheif, so its the same situation. Plus in Age 3 we get access to 2 or 3 elephants and 2 more in Age 4 when the Siege elephants will probably replaced with Palintonons.
      Overall, I don't see any real issue against the Siege Elephant as a ram unit. However I don't see the whole picture about the Indians, but I thought the Indian ram unit will be similar to the Indian elephants in Age of Empires II:
       
    7. Andy P XIII

      Andy P XIII Moderator
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      The Indians will have plenty of elephants. Don’t worry. We just haven’t showed them yet.
       
    8. frogs.poison

      frogs.poison Immortal

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      Hey Andy. Do you know if the India Ram is going to have a static Ram Head model based on rarity, or a dynamic Ram Head model based on equiped Ram Head? It was pointed out to me that Farbjodrs, the Roman Battering Ram, Babylonian Ram Ship, and Sappers all have static Ram Heads based on the rarity of the Ram Head, whereas all other units have dynamic Ram Head models that change based on the Ram Head equipped.
       
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