How to win your first few games and cheese your first few greats

Discussion in 'PvP Tips & Tutorials' started by Ardeshir, Feb 4, 2020.

  1. Ardeshir

    Ardeshir Immortal

    Apr 8, 2019
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    Sussem. Nice selection of PvP guides as well as some stuff covering connectivity, the old launcher and PvE! Pls no bully for the cheese guides
    Evellyn, bbgambini and WiriWout like this.
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  3. Aryzel

    Aryzel Immortal

    Feb 14, 2018
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    Going to tag onto Ardeshirs guides with some notes I've gathered for myself in trying to improve my pvp game. Note that I'm not a good pvp player, so these notes are more what I hope will be a guide to help me become a good player. Data was gathered from watching and pausing good pvpers games and noting some metrics, how to actually execute the metrics is mainly down to practice.

    Streams analysis:
    The below numbers are kind of an averaged number, and bit downgraded to be more achievable for new-medium players. For example the 0-15sec step, top players do in less than 4 seconds sometimes. Also note that actual interactions with opponent will change the strategy a lot, below is more of a generalised approach, can be good to practice it in skirmish champion mode

    [0-15 sec]
    (do properly, speed will come with practice)
    - TC que vil & hotkey [que for as much food as you have, 5 vil, shift+a to que faster] [hotkey ctrl-3 is where i put my TC's] (always centre of screen, have mouse in position) - Eye check minimap for location/orientation.
    - 3 vil on wood/food, depending on map/location/strategy [see Ardeshir guide videos above]
    - scout set hotkey and send out - move scouts out a bit further so their entire los clears viewing area.

    [15-45 sec]
    - scouts to get hunts - (if no hunts immediately, then put TC flag on berries so new vils are working]
    - once hunt found, set TC flag at hunt, then kill hunt
    - vil makes SH (storehouse) at hunt.
    - get 3 vil on hunt, 3 on wood, roughly - adjust as strategy requires.

    scout (key entry points on map near you) and opponent @1:30, kill hunts, make villagers efficient. 3w, 3f, then alternate, move TC flag for where next should go. Start Rax (barracks) building if going for early rax, which is usually a good default defensive strategy.

    Start ageing up to Age 2. Build house and Spearmen. Start gathering stone for 2nd TC

    [2:30 - 5:00]
    gold if need units, more villagers on stone for quicker TC, etc. several options, what gives most long term advantage. Build spears to counter opponents spears that attack, if they don't move towards you then keep resources for age 2 anti-infantry, or if easy to attack build some spears for that.

    [@5:00] start construction on your second TC

    [20min] have 40-60k resources gathered, 20-30 techs [can see in post game stats]

    [Dock play]
    dock at 1min mark, extra 1-2 vil on wood, rax at 2min mark, stone at 3min, age 2 at 4min

    Regular actions throughout above plan/game:
    - [Minimap] eye check minimap, orientation, things going on, etc
    - [Resources] check resources amounts and villagers on each. -> Spend excess and reassign villagers.
    - [Goal] Know next goal, what do i want to do next ie: age up, build 2nd tc, 3 production buildings, etc. that can help you know what to do/get with resources.
    - [Villagers and TCs] check villager production and TC flag point
    - [Military production] check military production


    Pop progress:
    [@2min] 12 pop, 10 vil
    [@3min] 18 pop, 13 vil
    [@4min] 23 pop, 15 vil
    [@5min] 30 pop, 19 vil
    [@6min] 38 pop, 23 vil
    [@8min] 60 pop, 32 vil
    [@10min] 90 pop, 45 vil

    Competency Checks
    I.e. things to look at/measure yourself against when


    pop/villager numbers
    Efficient gathering
    Rax start time
    Age 2 start time
    TC start time
    % of map scouted

    Opponent knowledge
    - what is their base like
    - where are their villagers
    - what are they gathering
    - where are their units
    - what/how many are they making

    - where is my 2nd gold, hunts
    - where is opponent 2nd gold, hunts

    How to practice and use the above
    Playing pvp games helps you get better, get used to the pressure and the million things that will go differently when you have human opponent that reacts to you. However, if you are starting out and what to become decent then having a practice plan can make your progress much faster. I recommend heading to Cyprus and doing the skirmish game in Champion mode (is a tickbox in the UI). Don't need to worry too much on opponent skill, just set it to Strong and play/replay the first few minutes of the game. Get comfortable with your opening 10min of playing. Do this with deliberate practice.

    [ ] Play the first 15sec of the game, with random maps. Start vils at your TC, keybind the TC, set starting vils on wood/food, keybind scout and set it out to find a hunt. Stop when you find the first hunt. Repeat. In 10min you could easily knock out this opening 30+ times. After 5min, consider how you are doing, what is going wrong/right, how long does it take you.

    [ ] Play the first 45/90 sec of game, get your storehouses setup, stop when you get your rax started. Pause the game and see how many vils you had on each resource, how much did you have stockpile. How long did it take you? Repeat until comfortable with this time period before going for longer.

    [ ] Play first 2-3min of game. Add ageing up to age 2, some spear production, maybe send them to harass opponent. When you pause at 3min, check your pop, what is your total pop and vil counts? Repeat until you have this time period smooth and efficient.

    [ ] Play first 5min, stop when you start the building of 2nd tc. How long did it take, what are your resource counts, your total pop and vil counts, is there waste you could improve?

    [ ] Play first 6-10 min, check pop counts, can you hit 90pop and 45vil at the 10min mark? If you can, then start adding in more scouting, harassing, etc. Can you be overrunning the Strong npc in Skirmish at that mark? Are you spending most of your resources?

    NOTE: Key point is you can practice the first few minutes a lot, very easily, in a short time period. Having a solid opening puts you in a strong position in many pvp games and lets you survive long enough to have fun moment when you play against stronger pvp players.
  4. Ardeshir

    Ardeshir Immortal

    Apr 8, 2019
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    Really nice writeup Aryzel. I like the competency check lists! Great list of what you should be focussed on out of your own economy and your early game scouting! Once folks are comfortable with meeting these targets, then they can look at a bit more experimenting in the midgame.
    bbgambini likes this.
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