By PF2K on Feb 3, 2021 at 6:16 PM
  1. PF2K

    PF2K Lead Developer | PvP Balance Team Lead
    Staff Member Administrator

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    HeaderGreekV2.png

    Unit_Card_Hoplite.png
    • Balance Team's Comment: Hoplites could use some help tanking in the frontline and protecting the ranged units in the back. This change should help them slightly with locking down flanking Cavalry units.
    Unit_Card_Ballista.png
    • Balance Team's Comment: The original Balance Team increased the population count of all Age IV Siege Units in the Summer Update of 2012, but we feel like this has made units like Ballistas see less play. We're trying to negate this with this change.
    Unit_Card_Hippikon.png

    • Balance Team's Comment: Hippikons got a massive DPS Buff to 30, from 24 in a previous patch. This proved to be a little too much for them so we are dialing back a bit.
    HeaderEgyptianV2.png

    Building_Card_Extended_Eggy_Temples.png
    • Balance Team's Comment: This change is aimed to help Egyptian players get their priest play going on a little easier than before.
    Unit_Card_Catapult.png
    • Balance Team's Comment: See "Greek Ballista".

    HeaderPersianV2.png

    Unit_Card_Asabara.png
    • Balance Team's Comment: We are observing Asabaras overperforming especially in the lategame. This change is aimed to mitigate Asabaras' lategame performance, but we will be closely monitoring this change and will make further adjustments as needed.
    Unit_Card_P_MA.png
    • Balance Team's Comment: Mounted Archers are supposed to be Anti-Cavalry Units but we are seeing them being used in nearly every situation, particularly in the lategame. We are trying to make them more specialized by decreasing their damage against non-Cavalry Units.
    Unit_Card_Spara.png
    • Balance Team's Comment: We feel like Snare could have more impact in the game than it currently does. We are trying to do this by increasing the Snare amount on units that already have it, meaning that they will slow down their targets more than before.
    HeaderCeltsV2.png

    Unit_Card_C_Champion.png
    • Balance Team's Comment: Champions have received many buffs in Champion Mode over the course of time, to the point that we think that they are overperforming for their cost right now, so we are increasing that a little bit so that Celts don't get as cost-effective trades as they previously could.
    Unit_Card_C_Swanship.png
    • Balance Team's Comment: The Celts have been dominating the Sea in Age II with their extremely powerful Swanships, despite not having a good Navy overall. We are toning down their Swanships' health a bit so that other civilizations have a chance to compete for the water, particularly civilizations that do not have Triremes or Longships (Persians, Babylonians and Romans)
    HeaderBabylonianV2.png

    Unit_Card_B_MA.png
    • Balance Team's Comment: See "Persian Mounted Archer"
    Tech_Card_B_MA_Champ.png
    • Balance Team's Comment: This upgrade made the Babylonian Mounted Archer a little too powerful, especially when backed up by other lategame upgrades such as Total War, so we are toning it down a bit.
    Tech_Card_B_Siege_Tower_Champ.png
    • Balance Team's Comment: After lots of nerfs to the Babylonian Siege Tower, we are slowly trying to make them see more play by buffing them in small amounts. We will make further adjustments to this unit as needed.
    HeaderNorseV2.png

    Unit_Card_WarDog.png
    • Balance Team's Comment: See "Persian Sparabara".
    Tech_Card_Extended_TA_Champ.png
    • Balance Team's Comment: We currently don't see Throwing Axemen used in the Silver Age very much, and this change is aimed to help them remain viable after the Bronze Age and throughout the later stages of the game.
    Unit_Card_Berserker.png
    • Balance Team's Comment: Berserkers, despite being extremely expensive and powerful units, don't seem to be doing too well in the current stage of the game. We are making them a bit more survivable to see if they see more play now. We will be closely monitoring this change and will make further adjustments as needed.
    Tech_Card_Extended_Berserker_Champ.png
    • Balance Team's Comment: See "Norse Berserker".
    HeaderRomanV2.png
    Unit_Card_Onager.png
    • Balance Team's Comment: See "Greek Ballista".
    HeaderGlobalV2.png

    Unit_Card_Scouts.png
    • Balance Team's Comment: This buff to Scouts is aimed to help dealing with those pesky Wolves on the map easier, as well as making it easier to kill Boars and Wild Elephants for you to hunt using your Villagers.
    Building_Card_TCs.png
    • Balance Team's Comment: Currently the metagame revolves heavily around Spearman rushes and we don't see much fast Age II for Archery Range plays or similar strategies. One way of helping players reach there is to buff the defenses of the Town Center.
    Tech_Card_Extended_Loom.png
    • Balance Team's Comment: See "Persian Sparabara". This change is aimed to mitigate the Snare change on Villagers only. We are also buffing the Research Time a little bit so it matches the Training Time of a single Villager.
    Unit_Card_Spears.png
    • Balance Team's Comment: See "Persian Sparabara".
    Tech_Card_Caravan_Speed.png
    • Balance Team's Comment: We previously nerfed Saddle Bags, but this upgrade had remained untouched for these three civilizations. We are nerfing this upgrade to match Saddle Bags, but will be making further adjustments as needed.
    Experimental Speed Changes
    ==========================
    Speed_Changes.png
    • Balance Team's Comment: At the current stage of the game, we see that games often come down to who makes the biggest Stable Army and runs around the map doing as much damage as they can, making non-mounted Unit compositions very difficult to use. We are toning down the Movement Speed of all Mounted Units, alongside Ulfhedinns and Woad Raiders so that other units will have a better chance of keeping up with them, particularly in the lategame. We realize that this is a fundamental change to the pacing of PvP and will be making further adjustments (or a complete reversal) of these changes. After these changes, every civilization with the exception of the Celts will have exactly one 9.5 Speed Melee Cavalry unit by Age III, and no more than that.
      • We are also considering increasing Archery Range, Barracks and Priest units' Movement Speeds either via Upgrades or baseline. But these changes - should they happen - will come at a later patch.
    Tech_Card_Sari_Champ.png
    • Balance Team's Comment: See "Experimental Speed Changes".
    Tech_Card_Asabara_Champ.png
    • Balance Team's Comment: See "Experimental Speed Changes".
    Tech_Card_WarEle_Champ.png
    • Balance Team's Comment: See "Experimental Speed Changes".
    Tech_Card_Lancer_Champ.png
    • Balance Team's Comment: See "Experimental Speed Changes".
    --------------------

    Remember, as always, these changes affect Champion PvP (And Champion Skirmish) mode ONLY and do not affect Quests, Regular Skirmish Mode, Crete or Geared PvP!

    You can also see the entire Champion Mode Tech Tree (for all civilizations) here!

    Feel free to discuss the changes below! :)
     
    #1 PF2K, Feb 3, 2021 at 6:16 PM
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2021
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Comments

Discussion in 'Patch Notes' started by PF2K, Feb 3, 2021.

    1. gamevideo113

      gamevideo113 Woad Raider

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      Loving basically all the changes, especially the siege ones (i think you forgot the War Wagon change though)!
      Just a couple of things i'd like to point out:
      Previously a Sarissophoros champion moved at 11 speed and the two Mounted Archer units moved at 10 speed. With these changes their base speed will now be the same and since flanking the MA with Saris was already kinda hard before i'm afraid this change will not have a good impact on this specific interaction. Anyway, we should see less cav all around so maybe this won't be much of a problem, also considering the MA nerf.
      Speaking of the MA nerf, can't really say i've noticed the unit overperforming in general, with a few exceptions maybe (mounted archers are very good at raiding, but so are chariot archers and any mounted-ranged unit really, and i guess some civs might have a relatively hard time at countering asabara+MA), so i'll be glad to test the new MA but i don't really think the dps reduction will benefit balance all that much.
      The last thing that needs some testing i think is the babylonian siege tower without snare immunity - afaik it wasn't that amazing to begin with and without snare immunity it might become harder to use. The pop reduction is always good though, also considering the DPS/pop.
       
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    2. stammy

      stammy Spearman

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      From what I saw jn
      From what I saw on the winter event games MA was excellent not only at raiding but their supreme speed made them so difficult to catch that it was oppressive the same with cavalry movement speed. I think the nerf is mostly to shake the meta and see more strategies in pro play. Because most match ups as they said consisted on who gets his cavalry bigger and starts patrolling the map and causing damage. Because MA was a so effective unit the counter of spearmans to cavalry was neglected in addition to the MA wins vs cavalry and because melee cavalry was so fast it was neglecting the counter of antirange range units to MA.
       
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    3. gamevideo113

      gamevideo113 Woad Raider

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      I think the main issue was with melee cav as you also point out. Mounted archers are a great addition to the cavalry army but i don't really think that they overperform against spearmen, and i wouldn't say they were the reason why spearmen were not working. Melee cav could simply escape from infantry since previously snare was weaker, making engagements not really rewarding for the spearmen player, even if their positioning was good.
      Compared to an average bowman that has 10 dps and 2x vs infantry (total 20 dps/pop), the mounted archer has 14 dps, costs 2 pop and doesn't get any multiplier, making the effective dps/pop 7 (base value). With the latest nerf it is now 6dps/pop for the persian MA and 5dps/pop for the babylonian MA. It's likely that MA now can still win against infantry with some good micro, but i'm questioning if the dps nerf was needed at all in the first place, on top of the speed nerf, the champion upgrade nerf for babylonians and the asabara nerf etc etc.
       
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