The opinion of a frustrated fan

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Xentronium, Jun 18, 2020.

  1. Xentronium

    Xentronium Villager

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    Since this is my first post here I would like to thank the team of Project Celeste for the great work that allows fans of the game to feel a little nostalgia after years.

    As for myself, I would like to mention that I am a huge fan of the aoe series and have a lot of experience with RTS games in general. I wouldn't call myself a pro gamer but I have spent a few years with PVP rankings in the good midfield.

    So I was even more surprised that now, as I slowly approach the end game content, I am no longer able to play even normal missions due to the difficulty level. Before I start to give you some hints on how to build up the economy and other things, I'd like to say that I already know them. I know how to get villagers to 80-100 in a short time and once I am in age 4, I never have problems to defeat enemies. I know the AI relatively well, know the strategies and races, know when the peaks of the enemy are coming and when to attack. My problem is that often there is no time to build up. I don't think that fits to the concept of Age of Empires. Even on normal simple missions you get killed by the AI with 3x 4 units after 2.30 min and immediate reinforcements after a few more seconds.

    I just don't enjoy this at all and yes I am frustrated. Therefore I write this post.
    It may be that you, who are developing the game, are professionals and therefore do not see any challenge in it.

    From my point of view the game in the End-Game unfortunately offers little incentive for RTS beginners and advanced players.
    Thank you for reading and continue with the game anyway. I'm looking forward to try the Romans in any case.
     
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  3. gamevideo113

    gamevideo113 Spearman

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    May i ask which quests you're referring to? I don't remember any quest where you get attacked after 2:30 minutes.
     
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  4. Exclusive0r

    Exclusive0r Immortal

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    Is it Athens ?? They can be a daunting at 1st , but it depends on the map .. a few restarts and you can get them going... But As gamevideo says would be interesting to know which quests. The elite quests in Argos are not hard and co op on Leg quests helps too. Stick around for Romans :):):):)
     
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  5. NannyOgg

    NannyOgg Villager

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    Like others, not sure which quests you mean. I find having a few heavy-duty consumables in the back pocket quite handy for delay tactics.
     
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  6. Exclusive0r

    Exclusive0r Immortal

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    I forgot to mention that Labour of the empire sets you withh a good pile of vills;););)
     
  7. Andy P XIII

    Andy P XIII Moderator
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    As developers, we face a wide and disparate group of players that fall on a spectrum of skill levels and a separate spectrum of gear level. We are charged with creating content for all of you to enjoy and find appropriately challenging. The wider the spectrum of players, the more often any given quest will fail to meet any specific player’s requirements.

    So apologies in advance. We are trying.

    Please tell us what quests are too difficult and whether you are attempting them solo or coop. We can then assuredly provide you with suggestions for quests that may fit better.
     
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  8. frogs.poison

    frogs.poison Woad Raider

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    Missions that send enemies at the 2:30 minute mark tend to have a countdown at the start of the mission indicating such, AND give you a large resource boost at the start. Except for Brennos Attacks. That one requires you to zerg the western base and destroy the Barracks before you get overwhelmed.

    No other missions launch attacks at you that early. Generally harder ones sending units your way at the 4 to 5 minute mark.
     
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  9. Exclusive0r

    Exclusive0r Immortal

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    That damn ship o_Oo_Oo_Oo_O
     
  10. Xentronium

    Xentronium Villager

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    Hello everybody, thanks for your answers.

    I specifically referred to the missions around Athens, where you get these legendary arrows at the end. There you start in Age 2 and do not have planty of resources unfortunately. I would like to say that I play as a persian. I know that this is a Civ, which becomes relatively strong only from age 3.

    I have already managed some of the missions. As I said, I find it very easy from Age 4 on. I only have problems at the beginning. That's what my post is about. I don't want to rely on consumables, that should only be the solution for legendary quests.

    Personally, I think it would be more exciting if you had a little more time to build up and the opponents would send a larger variety of troops a little later. In many maps they don't even build siege units.

    And another thing that comes to my mind, I find the mission objectives in the Athens missions a bit pointless in some cases. There you have to defeat some persian generals AND have to defeat all enemys. It seems to me that the second mission goal can't be achieved without the first one anyway.

    But as I said, I'm a fan and just want to give constructive criticism.
     
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  11. frogs.poison

    frogs.poison Woad Raider

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    Resources are fairly redundant. Most of the Athens incursion and liberation maps have enough resources for you to get up 60 Caravans quickly, afterwhich you no longer need to farm anything except wood, which all the maps have plenty of. In terms of map objectuves its not quite redundant. If it was just kikl generals, it could be zerged quickly. If it was destroy enemies, generals could be ignored while you focus on tcs and vils. Personally, I have only had issues with a few quests. The main one was Brennos attacks due to how aggresive you have to be early game while maintaining enough resources to move directly into sieging mid late game. The others were the Athens incursion quest as they give you only one merchant ship and can plop you far away from land or even in the middle of enemy warships. Those required a LOT of restarts until I got a good start.
     
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  12. Exclusive0r

    Exclusive0r Immortal

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    I had a hunch about Athens .. I really struggled in the beginning, but now I have all my Civ's through. The incursions are really tough, 1 millisec delay and those units with great gear just rip you up. In the end I used some consumables. Then on the l8r Civ play througs I could do it w/o.
    So if a slow git like me can manage it........I had a lot of time, lot of restarts (when my transport got sunk LoL) .
    I think you can Co Op ??? after incursions they are OK. As Frogs says a good econ and spam back .... loads of caravans, loads of production and spam them back ... Oh and upgrade asap bank as little as possible ...
     
  13. [BBA] Kog

    [BBA] Kog Spearman

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    Hello there , I will send you a friend invite In game , and will explain to you how to defeat those quests in no time .
     
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  14. Exclusive0r

    Exclusive0r Immortal

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  15. Aaron

    Aaron Berserker

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    From what I saw on Youtube videos (I don't play much Athens quests myself), some of those quests (the legendary versions, at least) do require pretty quick start on walling to buy time, which could be annoying if you aren't very quick about it. There are many other quests that are friendlier in that regard that you can start with, until you get better at optimizing and have better gear on your initial spearmen. For some others, the non-leg versions can be very annoying to start if your initial spearmen are weak, since you start at a lower age and have less resources compared to the leg version.
     
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  16. Equilibrium

    Equilibrium Woad Raider

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    The Incursion quests at athens were very challenging solo and even coop i had to save some weaker players. After Incursion where you can be really unlucky with your tc drop etc, it gets easier. I usually find other players in chat for questline, never do them solo, why should i? You can play solo pvp thats the way for me at least
     
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  17. Exclusive0r

    Exclusive0r Immortal

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    But some of us are stubborn and play - loose - play - loose <Do while Not Loose> lol ... I found maps where I could solo eve with only shift key (left hand) and consumables ... labour of the empire is yr friend .. and in crete
     
  18. Twowords

    Twowords Woad Raider

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    I have to agree with the OP. I am not amazing, but I know how to get an economy up and rolling. AThens quests were difficult but I managed on beating them, its every question after that. I timed it on a lvl 27 holy man, club men hit me at 1 min 30 seconds. I played in compitions a few years back and I know how to defend early but the questlines that are coming out now are way to hard and suck the fun out of the game even with consumables. My gear rating is mostly legendary so that isn't the issue. My consumables are the appropiate ones, spent millions on the correct advisors but I still get wiped clean off the face of the board before 5 mins or 10 min mark. I am very frustrated and I am sure I am not the only one who feels like this and there are many who have either left the game (sadly) or are hanging around and not speaking up. I almost think there should be a difficulty setting for the quest lines maybe with the same gear drop but more coin or a bonus to EP points or something like Easy Medium Hard in the original age of empires games. Anyway that is my two cents worth. Take it or leave it and despite my critism, the devs are doing a great job keeping the game running and coming up with new content despite the fact that I can't beat it.
     
  19. Andy P XIII

    Andy P XIII Moderator
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    I believe we devs have an agreement in principle to better label Leg Quest difficulty and/or recalibrate Leg Quest rewards. But iirc we haven’t come to any final plans. Hopefully one day.
     
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  20. Exclusive0r

    Exclusive0r Immortal

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    This is the perennial "Issue" with RTS games, Make 'em too hard or make 'em too eeezeee > It's really hard finding a balance. A slider would do it, but having made a couple of quests for myself in OFFLINE mode I am understanding the architure, AI and setting dificulty a little better.... boy is it complicated.

    I made a simple quest and have been trying to figure out triggers, to make a eazee, med, dificult , death match type of interaction in-quest . so far I haven't managed it. You see the issue is with the AI and that is that.

    So lets try to do the quests we like and change our strategies - winning all the time may feel good for a while but people will leave anyway.

    I think it is what it is and if I lose , I just try again and I only have mouse and shift key due to physical imapairments .
    Some you win , some you co op and some you need to try 100 x o_Oo_Oo_O

    There are so many quests to choose from and normal/elite/leg levels ... I think if people leave .. they will leave just sayin'
     
  21. garyoakk

    garyoakk Long Swordsman

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    I agree with OP and made the same criticism in the past. I don't like playing with consummables this is not the way I like RTS. athens quests and well of urn quest were too much for me and I am a well seasonned aoe / aom player. I cant imagine how the beginners feels in this.

    Frankly I just stopped playing, and my friends aswell. I'll check it out the romans when they get out and probably do their questline but im not interested in the game anymore
     
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