More about stats

Discussion in 'PvE General Discussion' started by Flutters, Apr 7, 2019.

  1. Flutters

    Flutters Champion

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    There's very little info out there about stats (and they're usually outdated, wrong or incomplete) so I thought I'd make this post.

    Most stats stack multiplicatively in some way or another. For example if you have two +50% Health stat bonuses, that's equivalent to having a single bonus of +125% Health, not +100% because 150% * 150% results in 225%. This is extremely important, it means you get rewarded for having many bonuses for a single stat or getting multiple different stat bonuses from a single source. But it's the opposite for "reduction" stats, a single -40% cost bonus is better than two -20% cost bonuses. I haven't tested every single stat, but the main ones like damage, health, range and speed stack multiplicatively. It would make sense if critical hit chance stacked additively instead.

    What some stats exactly do is not so obvious without some testing, so I'll leave what I found so far here.

    Armor
    There are four damage types in the game: Crush, pierce, melee-infantry and melee-cavalry. There are no restrictions on what damage type a certain unit class can have, and some units even have two different attacks with different damage types like the Immortal. But generally speaking siege units do crush damage, ranged units do pierce damage, infantry units do melee-infantry damage and cavalry units do melee-cavalry damage.
    Similarly there are 4 armor values against every type of damage: Crush armor, pierce armor, melee-infantry armor and melee-cavalry armor. Units or buildings can have a base amount of armor without any upgrades or items.
    Armor values shown in unit tooltips represent damage reduction, they're not armor values you can multiply directly with modifiers. For example if an unit has 0.3 pierce damage reduction as shown in the tooltip and you get a +20% pierce armor bonus, it's not going to be increased to 0.36, but 0.41666... (shown as 0.42 in-game). And 0.9 damage reduction gets increased to 0.9166... after a +20% armor upgrade.
    I don't know if there's any way to simplify this, but here's how it works: Armor basically multiplies your effective health against that damage type by that amount. No damage reduction means an armor value of 1. Armor bonuses stack multiplicatively, just like health. For example a hypaspist with 230 health and no pierce armor has 230 effective health against pierce damage. With a single +20% pierce armor upgrade from the armory it goes up to 276. With two +20% pierce armor upgrades from the armory it goes up to 331.2. The difference between 0.9 and 0.95 damage reduction is way more significant than the difference between 0.4 and 0.45 damage reduction. Having high armor against a damage type doesn't mean getting more armor against that same damage type is a bad idea.
    Damage taken multiplier = 1 / Armor
    Damage reduction = 1 - 1 / Armor
    Armor = 1 / (1 - Damage reduction)

    Critical Hit Chance
    Chance for your attacks to deal 2x damage. The wiki says triple damage, but it's currently double damage.

    Conversion Rate
    Misleading name. It's more like conversion time, not rate. Upgrades lower your conversion time. +50% Conversion rate translates to -50% conversion time. The wiki says "The rate a unit is converted is half of the units conversion rate to the conversion rate. For example, a Greek Priest has a conversion rate of 10. Therefore units will take 5 to 10 seconds to be converted." but I never tested if that's correct. I don't know how conversion resistance works, but it would make sense if it was a stat that multiplies the conversion time by that amount.
     
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  3. Exclusive0r

    Exclusive0r Immortal

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    Thanks for the clarification
     
  4. Wololoo

    Wololoo Champion

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    A great post - thank you.
    What I'd really like to see is some clarification on what the damage does for priest staffs.
    At one time I did think that Celt druids would benefit from being equipped with a high damage staff when fighting units but after testing this I found it made no different to their attack ability at all.

    So far the only benefit I've found of using a damage staff is when playing the Celt quest Winter Survival when you have to fend off the attacking wolves and bears.
    Here a damage staff does help but this one quest is hardly justification for having so many priest staffs with damage bonus?
     
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  5. WiriWout

    WiriWout Moderator
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    I made a tool to calculate armour that may be useful here. You can find the formula behind the armour values in the tool, which is pinned in #talk-pve in the discord.

    Alternatively, you can download it from this link: https://we.tl/t-x7lksynZIf
     
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  6. Flutters

    Flutters Champion

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    I will never understand why there are so many damage staves either. Damage is not very useful for any priest.
     
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  7. Chris23g

    Chris23g Woad Raider

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    I thought that the damage was to convert faster to the enemy units but never notice the change, they should change the damage per conversion percentage.
     
  8. Ardeshir

    Ardeshir Immortal

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    Some staves have bonus conversion rate, and bonus conversion rate for x unit type as a stat already. +damage on staves isn't very useful though.
     
  9. Exclusive0r

    Exclusive0r Immortal

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    I find damage on Priests too complicated so I go extra convert on what I think I'll need .....
     
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  10. Ardeshir

    Ardeshir Immortal

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    Range and conversion rate are best for priests with conversion, and for the others range and heal rate. A defensive stat or LoS for 3rd (or heal rate for priests that can convert). As a personal preference anyway.
     
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  11. Exclusive0r

    Exclusive0r Immortal

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    Convert siege bonus for leg Marion !!!:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
     
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