clean up the loot pool of the lvl 40 chest

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by ΚΛƬΛ, Nov 7, 2019.

  1. ΚΛƬΛ

    ΚΛƬΛ Spearman

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    lvl 40 chest are full of uncommon and common items , it haves no sense , I invest from half an hour to an hour and a half per leg and all I get is trash items that are usually worst than the ones I already have , that's frustrating and no, selling the trash items is not rewarding enough.

    Can you please take the green and white items out from the lvl 40 chest loot pool ?
     
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  3. Jeinx

    Jeinx Moderator
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    Part of RNG is having good drops and bad drops sometimes. Obviously we cant just have every drop contain great items. What would you suggest putting in place of common and uncommon things?
     
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  4. Kulcsos12

    Kulcsos12 Champion

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    Rare or epic gears, rare Capital decorations (like flower garden) rare or epic materials or something else. At level 40 nobody care about uncommon gears. Even a low level rare gears are better than those.
     
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  5. Jeinx

    Jeinx Moderator
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    So you want everything that drops in random chests to be useful? Wouldn't too many of current useful items dropping just eventually make the new items that drop not really useful, because we have so many of them? After about a million flower gardens drop, do you think we would need to stop those from dropping because they were not useful anymore? Surely you know there will always be items considered "trash" dropping. Even if we made only legendary items drop, they would be considered trash after so long. :( We are already vendoring many useful epic gear that we would have been able to sell to new players in old game. :oops:
     
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  6. Wololoo

    Wololoo Champion

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    I'd rather get a few freebie consumables than the usual vendor fodder:- green gear, common advisors, common consumable recipes etc.

    My vendor works dam hard 24/7 and is now screaming out for an assistant.
    Poor guy works his little socks off :)
     
    #5 Wololoo, Nov 8, 2019 at 10:13 AM
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2019
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  7. Zeeki

    Zeeki Spearman

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    I love RNG, my blood pumps for more chests, addiction starts here :)
     
  8. Ardeshir

    Ardeshir Immortal

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    But they already do drop in these chests. And to most people they already are considered vendor fodder pre epic.
     
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  9. Exclusive0r

    Exclusive0r Immortal

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    To me a least I sell the stuff I don't want and when I occasionally get a Leg Item it's a warm feeling, even then I may already have it or an epic that I prefer so it gets traded.

    All my consumables are from chests except twrs, Quick Storehouse, fortress so I agree
     
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  10. Kulcsos12

    Kulcsos12 Champion

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    Of course I'm not want to overdo it. However, getting 3 uncommon and 2 rare gears as a legendary quest reward is a little bit sad. Knowing that it has a chance to get a legendary item too. So lower the chance of the uncommon items and put that percentage into rare and epic items. This is what I want to see, not an "all-chest-legendary" drop.
     
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  11. ΚΛƬΛ

    ΚΛƬΛ Spearman

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    I understand the need of RNG for a looter , it obviously gives the motivation for grinding but Celeste inherit an already broken game both in economics and RNG , taking out the white and green items from lvl 40 chest could reduce the price of over expensive items in the market which is a good thing for player retention.

    I don't have a concise answer/proposition to your question cause I don't have the loot tables nor the exact quantity of items in existence per rarity and category but if you have the tables making a simulation of how the RNG will behave once you take the trash out is possible , if the epics and legs are over dropping reduce the drop percentage accordingly , but as I said since I don't have the tables I can't give a concise answer.

    But there are still more options to make the overall experience of looting less frustrating for example , the big bandit camps ( I don't remember their exact name ) that are in the leg quest have a chance of drooping between 1-3 chest and for average player like myself is really frustrating to get 4 camps that drop 1 chest each almost always + those chest are filled with trash , you could increase the minimum quantity of chest from each camp to 2-3 , it wouldn't affect the market prices as much than reducing the loot pool but it would make the pve experience more satisfying.

    Other option that involves no messing with the normal lvl 40 chest loot pool could be to make the chest that players get from the quest challenges into epic/leg chest but reducing the quantity of chest those challenges give proportionally , this option could be expanded upon by making the "challenge epic/leg chest" of each region drop different legs to encourage players to experience different content for example having the Cyprus leg challenges have an increased prob of dropping epic/leg cloth armor, increased not a certainty. This could be further expanded by having an NPC in the players capital cities that helps them know what region haves x type of item with simply dialog like "Oh thou have heard ? there are rumors that the tunics in Cyprus have such legendary comfy . . I hope I had one" , this hypothetical NPC could give some leg quest like the ones we have in the Halloween event right now for example "kill x quantity of spearman in a leg quest" just for fun.

    Other option could be to include a repeatable quest every 10 days in the capital city palace like "Do 5 legendary quest solo and get 1 leg chest" + "Do 8 leg quest in coop and get 1 leg chest" but this option would be pretty boring in the long run.

    Those are some suggestions but what ya wanted me to answer is not in my possibilities since I don't have either the loot formula/parameters nor the full list of items at my disposal to run test.

    Thanks for reading.
     
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  12. ΚΛƬΛ

    ΚΛƬΛ Spearman

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    And please don't be sarcastic, there is a reason of why the loot during endgame feels frustrating.

    Not all items are useful nor all items should be useful , but there should be a balance between trash and good items for endgame , I still remember how this specific problem made a lot of players drop out the game when it launched on steam and even earlier after beta. AOEO was ahead of its time by including the loot mechanics in a genre that usually don't have them and for the same reason it was unavoidable that the loot had some problems in the percentages the rarity and type of items that droops for each activity. No one is saying to remove the RNG, we just want a less frustrating experience and there is nothing wrong with that. :)
     
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  13. Fraxure022

    Fraxure022 Champion

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    I am inclined to agree with this, to an extent. The rewards system needs cleaned up. That doesn’t mean everything that drops from a Legendary quest should be phenomenal, but it should at least be relevant for the gold it provides from a vendor. The current rewards system was designed when there were two Civs. There are now six Civs with a seventh on the way. Each Civ has far more gear slots than a character in an RPG would have, and those RPGs have a much better reward structure.

    I do not advocate lowering the ceiling for the kind of gear you get from quests, Legendaries should remain legendary and Epics epic. I do, however, advocate for raising the floor. If I do a Legendary, I do not believe I should be opening uncommon vendor trash. I’d rather see coin, Capital City decorations or decent rare gear I can use on my other Civs.

    This all ties in to my strong conviction that the game needs a clearer reward structure, where the player is clearly directed to the content they need to do to get the rewards they want, without lowering the challenge.
     
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  14. Wololoo

    Wololoo Champion

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    Several players I chat with in-game are now so disappointed with the usual poor loot from legendary quests that they now rarely bother with leg quests at all and instead focus on the quick elite & alliance quests.
    The recent data review of quests actually completed, elsewhere in these forums, indicates precisely this.

    To be blunt and direct to the point, there is nothing better to loose the interest of PvE players than by having us play long & difficult leg quests just to be given garbage items as reward. Players that are 100% dedicated to the game will switch away from leg quests & those that don't have that level of dedication will just stop playing.

    Lastly, as per KATA above, I think that there is an issue (bug) with the large bandit treasure camps.
    Frequently I see all of these in a quest just yielding 1 chest instead of the expected amount of between 1 & 3.
     
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  15. Ardeshir

    Ardeshir Immortal

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    Raise the bar for loot, and expectation goes up with it.

    I get you guys think hard leg quests should somewhat guarantee at least rare gear, preferrably epic with a better shot at legendary than anything else, but I can bet if it's as streamlined as epic/legendary only, pve player turnover will go upwards rather than down.

    This game needs more gold sinks so you can buy upgrades without some rediculous 6/7 figure price, not to make it so that you'll only ever find upgrades.
     
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  16. Jeinx

    Jeinx Moderator
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    Not sure where you are detecting sarcasm :)
    Legendary quest rewards do not currently contain any green gear. I am asking questions to understand better :wink:
     
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  17. ΚΛƬΛ

    ΚΛƬΛ Spearman

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    Seriously what ? , Legendary quest CHEST gives mostly green and white items no one is talking about direct green item rewards from those quest , the chest that you get are full of green and white , and literal trash items , broken swords and stuff like that that can only be sold for 1-300 coin.


    I mostly agree with him , if we are going to sell the green and white items anyway getting coin bags/money/ep would feel less burdensome and less frustrating.

    And I agree as well with the new leg quest being too long and too difficult, the rewards they give are not proportional to the effort/time invested in completing them.

    Perhaps the team is overestimating the rewards and the feeling of satisfaction that the new legs give , for example we have the case of the new Egyptian quest and their challenges.

    Why do we start at Age 1 ? seriously why ? When most of the original Leg quest makes you start at a reasonable Age 3 with an increased difficulty , they give the player the additional tools to deal with such difficulty from the beginning it makes them more about fun than itemization. The new Legs feel like going against an over buffed player , having to rush from age 1 to 3 starting with low resources mostly is not fun and makes the quest feel to much like PVP + the new quest makes the player over reliant on items and specific stats like bonus damage against Cavalry arrows that are mostly useless in any other situation just to have a chance to complete those set of quest + their challenges.

    It would have sense to have such increased difficulty if the rewards were increased proportionally but they aren't and that makes them feel kind of a waste of time and that's a shame cause the maps are amazing , beautiful but the starting age and resources + the challenges ( seriously only spear man and villagers against elite Elephants that have an AOE damage + destroy not one , not two , but 7 fortress with a lineal path on both sides ? makes them feel more of a bother than reasonable quest even in coop , and the map was clearly designed with coop in mind if a player doesn't have the coward adviser is doomed to a lengthy and painfully boring/frustrating experience . . . and nope IMHO having to relay on the consumible "Siege of the empire" to "cheat" the quest and challenge in a reasonable time is not good at all ).

    It almost feels like the PVE of those new leg quest were designed with a PVP mindset, they are frustrating with not good enough rewards and that makes replay them not worthy.


    I know I know , but the economy is already destroyed from the very beginning since Celeste started where AOEC left and we can track the loot pool being full of trash as one of the culprits if not as the main culprit for that.

    Having rewards in the thousands of gold for legs + the offer/demand of leg and epics over inflated the prices of items by a ridicule margin !

    But unfortunately there is no easy and satisfying way to counter inflation , it can be done of course by cleaning the loot pools or increasing the number of chest so there is more epic/legs to satisfy the demand to such extend that the prices go down + reducing the number of coins each quest gives by 2 zeroes and the players gold by 2 zeroes if they have over 100,000 gold + reducing the money players get from selling items to stores by 50 + reducing the price of the leg items the regional stores sell using the Cyprus leg store as a reference to counter item overpricing from players in the marketplace ( the alliance wars were introduced after inflation was running rampant in the game that's why they have such high prices and for that reason they should not be used as a template for leg items sold in stores ). If they do ALL of that they can hard counter inflation and make the economy of the game be player friendly , less frustrating

    But they also have to take into consideration players feelings , how would players that invested a lot of time in the game feel after their earning where reduced to counter inflation ? If they love the game I'm sure they will find no problem in that but if they feel uneasy or unrewarded enough it could make them leave the game.


    There is a lot of things that Devs have to take into consideration when doing this kind of changes and that's what makes it difficult.

    Thanks for reading.
     
  18. Jeinx

    Jeinx Moderator
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    I'm not sure if you are referring to guardian chests or legendary reward chests. You may want to check again. Green and white items are not in the loot tables for legendary quests. Maybe you get a green recipe? I am not sure if you are talking about elite quests or legendary quests, broken items are not in legendary loot tables either, maybe an ultra low possible drop from legendary guardian chests.
     
    #17 Jeinx, Nov 10, 2019 at 4:26 AM
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2019
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  19. Jeinx

    Jeinx Moderator
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    I'm trying to fully understand, I'm just going to chalk it up to you want better items in drops. I can at least understand that. ;)
     
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  20. Exclusive0r

    Exclusive0r Immortal

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    Im sorry I'm just not getting this ??? (No offence) , You only do Leg quests for the Loot ?, What do you do when you get all the Gear ??

    Surely the game is about strategy and beating the opponent and the loot ? well that's the dull bit at the end . Playing a Leg quest is not a "Grind" , it's the Game ... Every time a different challenge , until your gear is so good you don't have to try ... so you de-Gear down a bit to bring back the "strat" part ... PVP gear don'T count ... so sorry not wanting the DEv's to focus on making the game less interesting , rather carry on making it greater ....

    I have so much gear and well if you play enough all comes to he who waits ... The loot is fine , getting too much would make the econ a mess.
     
  21. Fraxure022

    Fraxure022 Champion

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    I can verify that I am getting green items from Legendary quests. Just yesterday I got green walls from “Your Finest Horror”. I believe it was from the guardian camps, but since I open all my chests at the end, I’m not 100% on that.
     
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