Recently I started a discussion on the discord about civ selection criteria for an 8th civ. No matter what civ we were to choose, with so many good choices, everyone would have a different first choice, and so most players would be partially disappointed in the 8th civ. So our being able to candidly and transparently explain our selection criteria would likely go a good distance to help those players feel like we are still on their side. At least we feel like we've had good success with using the blog to explain our Roman design decisions. Even if players do not agree with some of those choices, for the most part, our explanations of how we arrived at them seem to temper everyone. Again, I am not seeking a consensus of what civ we should choose. It would be impossible to reach a complete agreement, and a discussion of players arguing for their favorite pet civ ends up being like 15 different arguments about 15 different civs shuffled together. Rather, I want a consensus of some of our outspoken members about what factors we should consider to rule out all but one civ. We have a list of now 15 different civs. So if we were to announce development of an 8th civ (which may never happen), 14 out of 15 of you would be disappointed. It is that moment that I want to brace us for. I want to be able to say at that moment to all 14 of those people that we used criteria that made sense and did our best to not be arbitrary. And, honestly, I think the exercise of coming up with those civ selection factors would help the group rule out a lot of those civs on their own so we can head off a ton of misplaced tears way beforehand. Choosing a civ is a group decision, and much easier if everyone who enters the room already agrees that their favorite civ isn't going to be picked. And then we discuss the criteria to pick civs and see where we end up. Like the Romans are not my next favorite civ. The Carthaginians are. So choosing a civ based on my own subjective popularity, I would have chosen the carthaginians. But choosing a civ based on a bunch of factors, many of which we mentioned above, I fully agree that the romans are the only choice for 7. and, yeah, to be clear, I am not saying we are making an 8th civ, let alone it would (or should) be some kind of popular election After our discussion, I took the civ selection criteria for an 8th civ that we discussed and made a list. Let me know if anyone sees something that doesnt belong or if I missed something. 1. Era: How much does the civ overlap in the timelines of the existing civs? 2. Location: Is the civ generally located near our existing civs without overlapping too much on their territory? Did the civ interact with existing civs in significant ways? 3. Availability: Historically, would the civ step on the toes of other civs? Is the civ referenced anywhere in the game or other official materials? Is the civ already in the game in some form, such as an alliance, smaller faction, or influence on an existing civ’s Units, Buildings, Techs, and themes? 4. Name recognition and fantasy: Does the civ have a well-known name that generates excitement? Does the civ have well-known branding of art, architecture, and Units? 5. Distinct Visuals: Would the civ be visually unique in its art, architecture and Units and otherwise lend itself to readability by players? 6. Playstyle and Design: Would the civ provide us with an opportunity to introduce enjoyable and fitting new ideas, Units, Buildings, and Techs into the game? Would the civ fit into the game with regards to playstyle, design, and strategy without stepping on the toes of other civs? 7. Previous Consideration: Did the original Developers consider designing the civ? 8. Expert Recommendations: Have the original Developers given any input about whether or not to design the civ? 9. Practicality: Is there some reason the civ would be particularly easier or more difficult to develop? 10. Opinions of Volunteers: Are our developers particularly excited or not excited about the civ? I hesitate to run the list of civs through these factors publicly, since invariably people will take whatever I say as some kind of statement. But I am sure players will try to connect the dots on their own. That's healthy and natural. I'd much rather we let players play around in the sandbox themselves so they can weigh these factors themselves so that they can begin to get used to the results. I'd caution those people to keep in mind the point is not to take your favorite pet civ and see if you can apply the factors to that civ and then claim they should be 8th. that's backwards. I would suggest you apply these factors to the entire collection of possible civs and see which ones fit the least. slowly reduce that list until there's only a couple contenders. in an ideal world, there would be just one obvious choice. spoiler alert: we do not live in an ideal world. but there are some civs that fit less into these criteria than some others. it would be a healthy exercise to get used to trimming the list Here is the list of 15 civs the group came up with, by the way. that a civ is not on this list is not a statement that it does not belong on the list. who knows what civs we'd consider if we ever got serious. Again, LOUD and CLEAR: god only knows if we ever try to make an 8th civ. We are taking it one civ at a time with giant vacations baked in. Gauls Germanic Tribes Thracians Carthaginians Phoenicians Nubians Scythians Huns Indians Mongols Xiongnu Chinese Japanese Olmec Mayans Feel free to leave your comments. But, again, the best comments compare potential civs against each other rather than just apply the factors to one pet civ and argue that's the answer. EDIT: There was a call for an 11th factor, which was for us to create a long-term plan of multiple civs to design in some strategic order. In full transparency, the reality of that kind of luxury of a long-term plan is so distant from the present devs' minds that we shudder to discuss something like it for fear of cursing ourselves or pressuring our friends. Besides, I am not sure there is any benefit to it. We chose the 7th civ in a vacuum and can similarly choose the 8th civ on its own, too. If we were to ever get to 9, we can then decide what direction to go based on the context of that moment in time.